Low.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 10:01 AM

As I continue to age in this 21st century, I grow less and less patient with the special needs of my vehicle. While it looks good sitting as low as it does, I was thinking even a subtle life might be in order. It's never sat as a Tokico/Prokit setup is supposed to. Both Eibach and RRE (from whom I bought the parts) say that it looks too low, but I've swapped out the springs to no change. Railroad tracks are brutal and I scrape on just about everything.

I've been considering buying a set of Ground Control coils, allowing me to raise the car up to exactly where I want. Probably about an inch.

Thoughts?

Doric · 01/14/2008, 10:18 AM

My only thought is that you're getting old. The car's gorgeous as it sits.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 10:36 AM

I knew you'd pop in here to tell me to just deal with it.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:07 AM

Why Ground Control as a brand? They seem to make some hit or miss stuff, with a lot of complaints on different car makes that they squeak and rattle like crazy. Maybe that isn't an issue for you, but pulling into a parking lot while being accompanied by a cacophony of racket isn't my idea of a good idea.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:13 AM

True dat. I figured that they were reputable since they work with Eibach, but that might be me putting more faith in them than I should.

What's namely attractive is a $400 price point. I don't want full coils, just something that can work with my current damps.

I've had these springs for 6 years. I should probably just deal, eh?

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:16 AM

Honestly, I would try some new springs and dampers all the way around. I can't remember if Eibachs are linear or progressive rates, but I would say to look for a new linear rate spring and some multi-valved dampers to freshen up the height and ride quality.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:19 AM

Oh yeah, and reading from not only the spring database here, but on practically every car forum I've ever seen, Eibachs sag like no other over time. Since you've had yours this long, it wouldn't hurt to junk 'em.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:22 AM

They're actually relatively new. A couple of years ago I sent a pic of my car to Eibach to ask if it looked "normal." They said, "No." And sent me a new set.

But I did think of maybe going to a higher spring and keeping the tok's. They're adjustable which is nice. I don't want to replace them if I don't have to.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

But I did think of maybe going to a higher spring and keeping the tok's. They're adjustable which is nice. I don't want to replace them if I don't have to.

Are the Tokico's older? I could never get more than a few years out of my Illumina's on my other cars before they needed a change. I am not sure if that is the type you have, but in my experience they seem to wear out faster than they should.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

But I did think of maybe going to a higher spring and keeping the tok's. They're adjustable which is nice. I don't want to replace them if I don't have to.

Do you know what the spring rates are on your Eibachs?

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:27 AM

Tein makes their "high.tech" series, which is a subtle drop on the 2G. .8/.9 drop compared to "1.3" on the pro kit. They're only $190. Might be worth the adventure?

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Tein makes their "high.tech" series, which is a subtle drop on the 2G. .8/.9 drop compared to "1.3" on the pro kit. They're only $190. Might be worth the adventure?

I am running Tein STs on my car, and they are firm (the spring rates are almost 200lbs more than OEM) the HTs seem to give a moderate drop and offer a lot more forgiving ride than do the STs, at least from what I have been reading about them.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Are the Tokico's older? I could never get more than a few years out of my Illumina's on my other cars before they needed a change. I am not sure if that is the type you have, but in my experience they seem to wear out faster than they should.

Yeah. They HAVE been around for a while, but they still seem nice and firm. *shrug*

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Yeah. They HAVE been around for a while, but they still seem nice and firm. *shrug*

Hmm, well, I think that for the overall feeling of the car, you would really benefit from a spring/damper swap, but if the ride isn't a bother all that much, the spring swap would be fine too.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:34 AM

I'd just stay away from the ground Controls though.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:37 AM

I'm not sure what the rates are on my pro kits, Sam.

I love the look of my car, sitting low and all, but it's a serious bitch and camber is a serious pain. With an Ingalls camber adjustment set, I can only BARELY get a -.5° and that's with 2° of positive adjustment. It's LOW, man.

I think .5" higher might be a nice subtle lift while keeping it looking nice.

As it sits now, I can barely get my thumb into either well above the tire.

There was a time that I did canyon stuff like a crazed psycho. I'd still like the option of going for a nice brisk cruise, but I don't need to be hugging the edge at 120. I don't race, I don't take it to tracks...Hrpmh.

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:46 AM

Yeah, I've been really backing off the ride height stuff too. I am at a moderate drop, but still only have 3" of clearance and that's a pain to deal with as is, I couldn't foresee myself going much lower. I run with a -1.9 camber on the rear and -1.4 on the front end, just because it's fun, and my car loves negative camber. I just don't like dealing with the ride height issues.

What I would suggest it, see if you can find the spring rates on your pro-kit, and see everything else available out there and compare spring rates, progressive or liner, and ride height. If you want clearance and comfort, you should look for a progressive spring, with a low spring rate at around an inch at drop, but not a whole lot more. I think you probably have a ton of choices actually.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 11:50 AM

Probably do. Thanks for the words, Sam.

I don't know why you'd touch the suspension in a Z, honestly. Maybe it's just my lack of experience driving them, but they feel really, really tight from the factory.

My camber thing is hilarious. Since we get shitty weather and stuff, our roads warp and get really freakish ruts. There are times that I have to hold the wheel with both hands to keep the car from following the grooves like rails. I've had the car jerk itself into an adjacent lane as it falls off of the crest of the road. Fucked up, huh?

Sam · 01/14/2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Probably do. Thanks for the words, Sam.

No problem at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I don't know why you'd touch the suspension in a Z, honestly. Maybe it's just my lack of experience driving them, but they feel really, really tight from the factory.

If I can give a numerical figure from one to ten on a Z from the factory, I would give OEM a solid 6, with springs, dampers and aggressive negative camber, I would give it a 9. It really makes a world of difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

My camber thing is hilarious. Since we get shitty weather and stuff, our roads warp and get really freakish ruts. There are times that I have to hold the wheel with both hands to keep the car from following the grooves like rails. I've had the car jerk itself into an adjacent lane as it falls off of the crest of the road. Fucked up, huh?

You know, that isn't necessarily a camber issue, that almost sounds like a tie rod, or tire issue, it sounds like tramlining, but it wouldn't make sense since I assume you are running similar branded and sized tires all the way around, right? So I would figure worn ball joints or tie rod ends, or your tires just have that "feature"" (

) built into them.

I know that having gone through six different brands of tires on my car, I had some BFGs, and Toyo's on there and their soft sidewalls, and weird footprints had me all over the road, whereas the OEM Bridgestones with stiff as a board sidewall kept me glued straight and true.

Jeremy · 01/14/2008, 12:04 PM

Ball joints, eh? Why would you say that? I would think cambered tires would pull into grooves, but maybe I'm wrong.

STOP GIVING ME THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT!

Sam · 01/14/2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy

Ball joints, eh? Why would you say that? I would think cambered tires would pull into grooves, but maybe I'm wrong.

STOP GIVING ME THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT!

01/14/2008, 10:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	Low. As I continue to age in this 21st century, I grow less and less patient with the special needs of my vehicle. While it looks good sitting as low as it does, I was thinking even a subtle life might be in order. It's never sat as a Tokico/Prokit setup is supposed to. Both Eibach and RRE (from whom I bought the parts) say that it looks too low, but I've swapped out the springs to no change. Railroad tracks are brutal and I scrape on just about everything. I've been considering buying a set of Ground Control coils, allowing me to raise the car up to exactly where I want. Probably about an inch. Thoughts?

01/14/2008, 10:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Doric 11/3/04 - 6/11/06 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denver, CO Vehicle: 2005 GTO Posts: 22,055	My only thought is that you're getting old. The car's gorgeous as it sits. __________________ I has a flavr

01/14/2008, 10:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	I knew you'd pop in here to tell me to just deal with it.

01/14/2008, 11:07 AM	#4 (permalink)
Sam Generally Bitter Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Vehicle: Yes Posts: 23,776	Why Ground Control as a brand? They seem to make some hit or miss stuff, with a lot of complaints on different car makes that they squeak and rattle like crazy. Maybe that isn't an issue for you, but pulling into a parking lot while being accompanied by a cacophony of racket isn't my idea of a good idea.

01/14/2008, 11:13 AM	#5 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	True dat. I figured that they were reputable since they work with Eibach, but that might be me putting more faith in them than I should. What's namely attractive is a $400 price point. I don't want full coils, just something that can work with my current damps. I've had these springs for 6 years. I should probably just deal, eh?

01/14/2008, 11:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
Sam Generally Bitter Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Vehicle: Yes Posts: 23,776	Honestly, I would try some new springs and dampers all the way around. I can't remember if Eibachs are linear or progressive rates, but I would say to look for a new linear rate spring and some multi-valved dampers to freshen up the height and ride quality.

01/14/2008, 11:19 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sam Generally Bitter Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Vehicle: Yes Posts: 23,776	Oh yeah, and reading from not only the spring database here, but on practically every car forum I've ever seen, Eibachs sag like no other over time. Since you've had yours this long, it wouldn't hurt to junk 'em.

01/14/2008, 11:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	They're actually relatively new. A couple of years ago I sent a pic of my car to Eibach to ask if it looked "normal." They said, "No." And sent me a new set. But I did think of maybe going to a higher spring and keeping the tok's. They're adjustable which is nice. I don't want to replace them if I don't have to.

01/14/2008, 11:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	Tein makes their "high.tech" series, which is a subtle drop on the 2G. .8/.9 drop compared to "1.3" on the pro kit. They're only $190. Might be worth the adventure?

01/14/2008, 11:34 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sam Generally Bitter Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Vehicle: Yes Posts: 23,776	I'd just stay away from the ground Controls though.

01/14/2008, 11:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	I'm not sure what the rates are on my pro kits, Sam. I love the look of my car, sitting low and all, but it's a serious bitch and camber is a serious pain. With an Ingalls camber adjustment set, I can only BARELY get a -.5° and that's with 2° of positive adjustment. It's LOW, man. I think .5" higher might be a nice subtle lift while keeping it looking nice. As it sits now, I can barely get my thumb into either well above the tire. There was a time that I did canyon stuff like a crazed psycho. I'd still like the option of going for a nice brisk cruise, but I don't need to be hugging the edge at 120. I don't race, I don't take it to tracks...Hrpmh.

01/14/2008, 11:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
Sam Generally Bitter Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Tallahassee, FL Vehicle: Yes Posts: 23,776	Yeah, I've been really backing off the ride height stuff too. I am at a moderate drop, but still only have 3" of clearance and that's a pain to deal with as is, I couldn't foresee myself going much lower. I run with a -1.9 camber on the rear and -1.4 on the front end, just because it's fun, and my car loves negative camber. I just don't like dealing with the ride height issues. What I would suggest it, see if you can find the spring rates on your pro-kit, and see everything else available out there and compare spring rates, progressive or liner, and ride height. If you want clearance and comfort, you should look for a progressive spring, with a low spring rate at around an inch at drop, but not a whole lot more. I think you probably have a ton of choices actually.

01/14/2008, 11:50 AM	#18 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	Probably do. Thanks for the words, Sam. I don't know why you'd touch the suspension in a Z, honestly. Maybe it's just my lack of experience driving them, but they feel really, really tight from the factory. My camber thing is hilarious. Since we get shitty weather and stuff, our roads warp and get really freakish ruts. There are times that I have to hold the wheel with both hands to keep the car from following the grooves like rails. I've had the car jerk itself into an adjacent lane as it falls off of the crest of the road. Fucked up, huh?

01/14/2008, 12:04 PM	#20 (permalink)
Jeremy Mister Torpedo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Ft. Collins, CO Vehicle: 1998 Eclipse GS-T Posts: 10,110	Ball joints, eh? Why would you say that? I would think cambered tires would pull into grooves, but maybe I'm wrong. STOP GIVING ME THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT!