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Old 06/08/2017, 09:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2003 Eclipse 3.0 Auto Speed sensor question

I am new to the forums, and I just bought a 2003 Eclipse for my daughter with the 3.0L automatic. Replaced Input Shaft speed sensor and the output shaft speed sensor. I get those done and then notice that the "VSS" in the back has no connector on it.. nor can I find it. Anyone have any diagrams with routing for this wire / connector? I kinda need to find it as its the only Trans code I am getting now tells met he VSS is an open circuit (of course its not plugged in) any help would be great here.

-George
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Old 06/09/2017, 04:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I am new to the forums, and I just bought a 2003 Eclipse for my daughter with the 3.0L automatic. Replaced Input Shaft speed sensor and the output shaft speed sensor. I get those done and then notice that the "VSS" in the back has no connector on it.. nor can I find it. Anyone have any diagrams with routing for this wire / connector? I kinda need to find it as its the only Trans code I am getting now tells met he VSS is an open circuit (of course its not plugged in) any help would be great here.

-George
Anyone By chance that can lend a hand here?

Thanks!
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Old 06/09/2017, 07:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What exactly was the issue? VSS should be only for M/T on 2003 models.

Here is the manual: 2003-2005 Eclipse Factory Service Manual – Tearstone

Here is "COMPONENT LOCATIONS" document, look your sensor at page 70-10;70-12:

http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/GR00005400-70.pdf

Last edited by GalantES-2001; 06/09/2017 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 06/12/2017, 01:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=GalantES-2001;4359930]What exactly was the issue? VSS should be only for M/T on 2003 models.


Here is "COMPONENT LOCATIONS" document, look your sensor at page 70-10;70-12:

So I replaced the Input Shaft speed sensor, and the output shaft speed sensor.. and on the back of the trans , there is a sensor that is not plugged in at all. From what I read, this is a VSS. problem is I have no pigtail to plug into it. Nor can I find one. I was hoping to find a routing of where this pigtail may be, so that I can track it down and plug it in. Currently only error I am getting when scanning the computer is an open or short Vehicle speed sensor code. (solus code on the trans). The sensor looks like 4 wires with a rectangle clip, further back fromt he output shaft speed sensor and slightly to the left when you are looking at it from the front of the car. It is very close to the rear motor mount..
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Old 06/12/2017, 02:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=gdimovski;4360186]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalantES-2001 View Post
What exactly was the issue? VSS should be only for M/T on 2003 models.


Here is "COMPONENT LOCATIONS" document, look your sensor at page 70-10;70-12:

So I replaced the Input Shaft speed sensor, and the output shaft speed sensor.. and on the back of the trans , there is a sensor that is not plugged in at all. From what I read, this is a VSS. problem is I have no pigtail to plug into it. Nor can I find one. I was hoping to find a routing of where this pigtail may be, so that I can track it down and plug it in. Currently only error I am getting when scanning the computer is an open or short Vehicle speed sensor code. (solus code on the trans). The sensor looks like 4 wires with a rectangle clip, further back fromt he output shaft speed sensor and slightly to the left when you are looking at it from the front of the car. It is very close to the rear motor mount..
So I looked it up and there seems to be a gear on the bottom of it. just need to find the darned pigtail / clip to plug into it. Cant post links here. but if you look on eBay and search on item number 191867351496 you will see the exact part. I am lost.. and this is making me bonkers...

Thanks in advance for any help!!
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Old 06/12/2017, 05:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So I replaced the Input Shaft speed sensor, and the output shaft speed sensor
Yeah, I got that.
But why did you have to replace those sensors in the first place? There is 0% chance they both went bad at the same time.
My guess is you (or somebody before you did) replaced transmission and instead of getting the right one (from 2002 model and +) put transmission from older model, which has different number of tooth on the input sensor gear and is not compatible with your car's PCM. That's why you have "extra" speed sensor.


Last edited by GalantES-2001; 06/17/2017 at 01:52 PM.
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Old 06/12/2017, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Sometimes it's helpful to start from the beginning, like what prompted sensors on the trans.
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Old 06/16/2017, 02:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Sometimes it's helpful to start from the beginning, like what prompted sensors on the trans.
Sorry so late in responding.. its been a hell of a few weeks...


I had a friend of mine with a Solus read the transmission codes on the car. They prompted sync errors which I read up on here on the forums. according to the codes, input shaft speed sensor and output shaft speed sensors could cause all that. So, I replaced them both.. since then, all the sync related codes have cleared, EXCEPT one for a Vehicle speed sensor. The message says open or shorted circuit. Its making me crazy. Lets say they did put a different/ older trans in... then the computer wouldn't care about it right? So how is it I am getting this code? The trans starts off normal.. in first.. shifts to second.. bangs into third and stays there.. won't up or down shift. The error reads that with the VSS code I am getting, that it will do exactly that. I am at a loss.

Thanks for any support with this!
-George
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Old 06/16/2017, 06:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GalantES-2001 View Post
Yeah, I got that.
But why did you have to replace those sensors in the first place? There is 0% chance they both went bad at the same time.
My guess is you (or somebody before you did) replaced transmission and instead of getting the right one (from 2002 model and +) put transmission from older model, which has different number of tooth on the input sensor gear and is not compatible with your car's PCM. That's why you have "extra" speed sensor.

I absolutely understand exactly what you are saying here. I bought the car like this and trying to make it drivable for my daughter. So I am guessing that one of the input shaft / output shaft speed sensors was bad, and I just replaced them both while I was that far in. The car doesn't seem to have the pigtail for the VSS in the car. But the PCM is still looking for it. Does that seem like they swapped the PCM/TCM too? Second question is, if that is the case, Can I swap a 2003 PCM/TCM and will it work since it wouldn't be looking for the VSS? I have seen that these tranny's for the newer models have a plug over where the VSS is. Are the internals the same.

Thanks for your help!!
-George
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Old 06/16/2017, 08:49 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Lets say they did put a different/ older trans in... then the computer wouldn't care about it right?
PCM cares about the signal it is getting from input/output sensors.
If the signal is abnormal (how it will be with the "old" transmission) PCM will switch transmission into "safe" mode (only 3rd gear is available) and throw a code, something like "Gear X incorrect ratio".
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Old 06/16/2017, 09:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Does that seem like they swapped the PCM/TCM too? Second question is, if that is the case, Can I swap a 2003 PCM/TCM
It's hard to say, they might swap PCM but in this case they have to reflash it in order to deactivate immobilizer. So if you just put another PCM car won't start.

I would check the transmission number to see what exactly installed on the car. If it's F4A51-2-E5B1 - it's not good.

And PCM number too.
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Old 06/17/2017, 06:12 AM   #12 (permalink)
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It's hard to say, they might swap PCM but in this case they have to reflash it in order to deactivate immobilizer. So if you just put another PCM car won't start.

I would check the transmission number to see what exactly installed on the car. If it's F4A51-2-E5B1 - it's not good.

And PCM number too.
Where do I find this? this car is driving me crazy...
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Old 06/17/2017, 06:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GalantES-2001 View Post
PCM cares about the signal it is getting from input/output sensors.
If the signal is abnormal (how it will be with the "old" transmission) PCM will switch transmission into "safe" mode (only 3rd gear is available) and throw a code, something like "Gear X incorrect ratio".
I saw these errors prior to changing out the input shaft / output shaft speed sensors.... now I am just seeing the VSS circuit error :\
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Old 06/17/2017, 01:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I saw these errors prior to changing out the input shaft / output shaft speed sensors
They can come up again after you drive the car for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gdimovski View Post
Where do I find this?
Location of the transmission number is shown here: http://tearstone.com/eclipsefsm/GR00005300-00.pdf, page 00-20.

PCM is on firewall behind blower assembly, number is on "black box":
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Old 06/18/2017, 08:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=GalantES-2001;4360930]They can come up again after you drive the car for a while.



Location of the transmission number is shown here:

Figures that I can't get to either point with out tearing everything out.. I will see about checking this, this coming weekend. I just having a stinking feeling that this transmission is not the right one. Like someone mentioned above.. maybe its from a 2001 or older. curious.. but if that was what happened.. can I swap to an older ECU/TCM? I mean the engine is still the same ultimately isn't it? Just trying to get by without spending a fortune...
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Old 06/18/2017, 08:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=gdimovski;4361082]
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Originally Posted by GalantES-2001 View Post
They can come up again after you drive the car for a while.



Location of the transmission number is shown here:

Figures that I can't get to either point with out tearing everything out.. I will see about checking this, this coming weekend. I just having a stinking feeling that this transmission is not the right one. Like someone mentioned above.. maybe its from a 2001 or older. curious.. but if that was what happened.. can I swap to an older ECU/TCM? I mean the engine is still the same ultimately isn't it? Just trying to get by without spending a fortune...
Just realized... that without the pigtail... can't hook up the VSS /facepalm
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Old 06/18/2017, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=gdimovski;4361090]
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Originally Posted by gdimovski View Post

Just realized... that without the pigtail... can't hook up the VSS /facepalm
Noticed as I was looking around... whats the difference between the trans in a GT, Versus a GTS?
GT = F4A512FZB
GTS - F4A512LZP

Whats the difference in fuctionality? can one swap in for the other? Just doing some pre searching in case I need to replace this thing...
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Old 06/19/2017, 01:11 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GalantES-2001 View Post
PCM cares about the signal it is getting from input/output sensors.
If the signal is abnormal (how it will be with the "old" transmission) PCM will switch transmission into "safe" mode (only 3rd gear is available) and throw a code, something like "Gear X incorrect ratio".
not sure if my newest post reached you.. figured I would try again just in case.... thanks!!
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Old 06/20/2017, 10:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Bump Any info on whats different between the two transmissions listed?

Thanks!
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Old 06/20/2017, 12:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So apparently, for this GTS.. the swappable transmission is from 03-05. no one in my immediate area has one.. anyone here by chance have one available? Not sure I will need it yet.. but will know more this afternoon...
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Old 06/20/2017, 12:52 PM   #21 (permalink)
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not sure if my newest post reached you
Unfortunately, I don't know the difference between GT & GTS trans, but may you can see it here: GT vs GTS

I'm still wondering what transmission is installed on your car now, just to see if my guess was right.
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Old 06/20/2017, 05:34 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, I don't know the difference between GT & GTS trans, but may you can see it here: GT vs GTS

I'm still wondering what transmission is installed on your car now, just to see if my guess was right.
so crazy... but the number isn't just stamped...its like stippled.. tons of little dots like braille. hart to read but what it LOOKS like is 4a3ac54hk1e01936... that is what I think is on that front pad...
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Old 06/20/2017, 09:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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hart to read but what it LOOKS like is 4a3ac54hk1e01936...
This is the VIN. Transmission number should be close to external filter (or place for filter):

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Old 06/20/2017, 09:23 PM   #24 (permalink)
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More info:

http://www.all-trans.by/assets/site/...ishi/F4A51.pdf

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