ITB (Independent Throttle Bodies)...discuss? - Club3G Forum : Mitsubishi Eclipse 3G Forums

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 09:10 PM

Well I don't think this has been discussed before, so I am wanting to do this thread. What exactly is required to run ITB's, how does it hook up to the car, and its it bolt on or weld on? I am pretty sure a greddy emanage would be needed to tune, correct? But what else would be needed to run it sufficiently?? Also, is it made for only track cars or can daily driven cars have them or what??

This video right here really sparked my enthusiasm...I usually hate honda's, but this thing sounds fuckin wicked.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...78f042a005.htm

Tearstone · 07/13/2006, 09:38 PM

Glad you asked, RPW makes six pack throttle bodies. I think when you do this, your venturing into stand alone fuel management territory or maybe even a MAP setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPW Website

Six Pack Throttle Body Systems

The below system requires use of both a FPR unit, full aftermarket programmable computer and min engine modifications of camshafts, RPW 3-1 race design extractors and exhaust work. All of the below systems come with standard PCV breathing system. Optional idle speed control for air conditioning / cold start systems available at extra charges.

* Six Pack Throttle Body Systems - no compromise - replace single throttle body with six independent 40mm butterfly systems for a total of 360mm of butterfly area. For use for the serious performance vehicle, comes with choice of carbon fibre air box or K&N Weber air box. The individual nature of utilising the original intake manifold enables us to use the long runners to maximise torque and top end horsepower. Due to being individual runners, use of interference design extractor / header system will not produce good results, 3-1 systems tuned length are an absolute must as is programmable computer systems due to massive increases in air flow that the stock computer system even with a piggy back computer is unable to adjust for.
* Stage 1 Six Pack Throttle Body System - this is a new introduction. Where previously we used to always use the Stage 2 system (Photo's below), RPW has begun designing and manufacturing this system by placing the butterfly adapter kit at the end of the 2nd manifold to utilise the extremely long runners to further enhance torque, at the expense of a slight top end performance. This is in order to make this system more street friendly. The throttle bodies and air cleaner will be pointing back towards the fire wall, but use of our carbon fibre air box with a single or twin outlet air cleaner system will ensure no lack of air flow.
* Stage 2 Six Pack Throttle Body System - for the extreme racer - instead of using the second half of the manifold with a curve, we adapt the system onto the top of the primary manifold which bolts directly onto the engine block, this is a straight joiner to the quad throttle bodies - meaning no restrictions and unlimited air flow. Loss of torque is offset by massive top end improvement - but don't expect to drive around at 1500 rpm. This is for heavily modified engines with high rpm use. The butterflies are also increased to 45mm for extreme race use on the 3.5 V6 engines (3.0 remains at 40mm)

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 10:12 PM

man this sounds interesting. what is your thoughts on this Tearstone? Do you have or know anyone with experience in these, like what kind of torque and whp we could expect? So your saying not even a greddy e-manage would be sufficient?? What about the whole mynes reflash thing?? I believe this is a major step towards getting some good numbers out of a n/a application with the 6g72. I had read on their site before that they carried them and everything, but never really payed attention to it because I didn't know what it was. I am trying to understand what is the pros to doing this and how exactly it works. Wouldn't it suck in dirt and harmful particles into your engine, because if I am not mistaken, each individual throttle body is open. I already plan on getting headers, stage 1 cam, aeromotive FPR, upgraded plugs and wires, torque convertor, tranny cooler, and i WAS going to get s-afc, aem v2 intake and a 65 mm rpw tb. but I wonder how this six pack with a hell of a tune would yield?? very very interesting. I know one things for sure, this car would sound like hell is being unleashed when the go-fast pedal hit the floor.

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 10:14 PM

Oh and by the way Tear, have you found someone yet to fab up that pipe for the street series budget long tube headers? If you can find someone to do it so you can sell the headers with a high flow cat with the downpipe on those headers, I would definately buy them. I am just worried about getting raped from a shop having the downpipe made for me.

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 10:22 PM

Oh and one more thing. haha. Do you know if there is a shift kit made for the 3g?? I was on IPT's website and at one time, they had the 3g shift kit listed, but I am not seeing it now. Just trying to think of ways to make the car faster without boost. One VERY interesting thing i found on this website though, its that they carry a Limited Slip Differential for the automatic 3g's. I didn't know they existed, I was for sure it was for stick shifts only. They have the Translab Shift kit, but in the description it says DSM...but I wonder if it would work for our cars as well?

http://www.importperformancetrans.co...uto.shtml#main

icemanrld19 · 07/13/2006, 11:00 PM

Arachno are you ever going to buy any performance parts? Ive noticed you have alot of threads on what you want to do. Why dont u get something first and start from there instead of trying to figure out the best performance package for your car without actually buying something

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 11:35 PM

Money man, I don't have trees that grow money. Lawyer's are being a bitch and keep pushing the court date back, waiting on a settlement from a car accident. Sorry for exploring my options.

icemanrld19 · 07/13/2006, 11:42 PM

No no man dont take my post like i was giving you shit or anything. Im just saying buy something and start messing with it. Wouldnt a tq converter help you alot even without major power add ons? After that start messing with the ecu reflash and adding mods like I/h/E and then start messing with throttle bodies and that type of shit. Do the simple stuff first cause if u have to eventually get a piggyback or standalone system the money starts adding up. Once you get pretty far theres no turning back

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 11:49 PM

Well the major thing is man, I am waiting on that settlement because I am ordering everything from tearstone at once and getting it all tuned at once. I just don't have a lot of free time, so I need to get it done at once. College and football is so hard to work around. And another thing, I am waiting to see if tearstone can find someone to fab up that downpipe needed on those long tube headers he sells. Right now, its just a waiting game. soon as the settlement comes in, I am ordering everything for the car down to the final bolt that i plan on putting on. interior, under the hood, wheels...everything. But after re-reading your post...one MAJOR reason I am not going and blowing money on these things. I am going to do it right the first time...not going to buy one thing and then I have to end up taking it off and buying something else and putting it on. You see? like if I was to go with ITB's, I would have to toss the intake and the upgraded throttle body and the apexi safc for a standalone and the six pack ITB's. I am very nit picky and I hate spending money twice. I just want to do it right. and you are right, the torque converter will help.

icemanrld19 · 07/13/2006, 11:52 PM

good i was just testing your thinking and you passed.
Do it right the first time is always the best. Ask my stock clutch with 5psi at the time or my stock motor since some stupid fuck didnt install the emanage correctly. Its all good now cause I HAVE checked everything.
Goodluck

ARACHNO · 07/13/2006, 11:56 PM

haha yeah man, i know i may change my mind alot and make a shit ton of posts and yes I get alot of hell from people, but I don't care...I am doing this right the first time. Its ALOT of money to spend to change my mind a few months down the road.

btw, if anyone has any information to share on the ITB's, please feel free to chime in.

ARACHNO · 07/14/2006, 11:13 AM

bump...anyone?

mozart4898 · 07/14/2006, 12:16 PM

Well, I read this thread yesterday and then after you posted in my thread asking my advice, I thought I'd come back again...

Honestly, I don't know how practical this really would be for us. If someone was out to prove the N/A capability of this engine, this would definitely be a good route to go. However, 6 throttle bodies, one for each cylinder, there's no way you'd be able to get the stock ECU to handle that. I don't think there'd even be a way with a reflash. I'm 99.99% positive you'd need a standalone to control this. I know for a fact that Kris (Clipse3GT) spent probably almost $4000 getting his Haltech to work (parts and tuning). (And work it does...) But that's with he himself doing the install and then having the baseline tuned at a shop. And then the 6 pack throttle body from RPW is what, like $2000 as well? So figure at a minimum you'd probably be looking at $6000 to get this up and running...and then how streetable will it really be? No way to know since no one else has done it on our cars.

Not saying you're not willing to put some money into your car (and I really do understand the whole thing about researching and planning your path without buying parts haphazardly...however it's hard for me to keep from buying some things now and then so I haven't been able to stick quite to it like that...), but I think that, especially given what your goals seem to be, if you're planning to drop $6000 on your car, you'd be a lot further ahead to get either a Tearstone turbo or SDS, OR go with the N/A route that's been discussed by you, me, and several others - cams, P&P, throttle body/intake manifold (manifold not in your case), possibly higher compression (again in your case you've already got 10:1), and then eManage.

In short, unless you win the lottery soon Arachno, I don't think the ITB idea is too practical for our cars. Now if someone has an almost endless bank and wanted to try it for $hits and giggles, well then, more power to them. I just hope they don't think they're going to have a good grocery getter...unless they like ricing around, cruising at 5000 RPMs

Although I am a big supporter of the idea that "it's your car, if it makes you happy, then it's cool." (i.e. I'm not the one who tells people who ask questions about, say, an all wheel drive 3G, "Just buy an Evo.") If you want to be the guinea pig for us and try it, I'd love to see how it works out.

Clipse3GT · 07/14/2006, 12:26 PM

Sigh, I figure I might as well venture into this what if post. IBT setup is a perfect solution for a naturally aspirated car. However, if I was going to do this I would do a shit of research. You will want a free flowing motor with ITB's. That means, you will need to do a high compression piston swap, lightened rods, lightened crank, light weight flywheel, and then get some aggressive N/A cams. Port and Polish job on the heads. No need to upgrade the valves since you won't be flowing as much as a SDS or Turbo.

Now lets say you will have all this done. Now you don't have to worry about a intake manifold etc... or intake piping. However, you will have to get rid of your EGR system, which means your cruise control is gone as well, and if you want really fast reving engine, get rid of the A/C system and get a lightened crank pulley. Anything that will keep this motor high reving and very responsive.

Now with a N/A motor you want response. So that means injector upgrade. You will want peak and hold injectors, they are 3ohm usually and very responsive as compared to a saturated injector that is 12-15ohm. You want response, its a good thing

. So now you are like okay that's not too bad I can do that. Hold up!!!

FUEL MANAGEMENT & IGNITION by far one of the most critical parts in a EFI engine. Now you have 6 ITB's NOT 1! How in the world will you control this the stock ECU, reflash or not is going to take shit when it see's this. And how the fuck would you incoporate hte MAS, ding! So there is NO STOCK ECU, NO REFLASH, NO EMANAGE. You don't have any of those options, what option you have is a standalone. I recommend Haltech best bang for the buck. That's a 1500-2000 dollar expense. With 6 IBT's you will need a Haltech E11v2, the E8 doesn't support 6 injectors in sequential firing order.

So now you are like oh shit, this will cost a lot of money. Yup, but its not it. Now you have to hook in a standalone, its not 1+1 = 2. You will need to find a authorized dealer and tooning shop for this. I spent 2 grand in labor and tuning for my haltech to work as smooth as butter.

If you are up for the challange, I will want to see the results

Clipse3GT · 07/14/2006, 12:38 PM

Here is a video of IBT's in action.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...78f042a005.htm

ARACHNO · 07/14/2006, 12:48 PM

I posted that earlier Clipse

Thank you for the replies, that is all I needed to know. I didn't realize it would take all that, which is why I made this in the first place. It just sparked my enthusiasm. I think I will go buy that apexi SAFC 1 next week for $25 from a buddy of mine locally and just do my original plan. I emailed the person at TPS to see what kind payment plans they are going to do for the raceblock and the turbo kit. That would be more feasible than this I believe. THanks again guys. We need to find someone willing to be the guinea pig.

Crow · 07/15/2006, 10:28 AM

damn arachno your worst than a woman when it comes to making up your mind. few months ago you said there wasn't a chance in hell you would go boost now your going to do it? lol. and just think you could have gotten boost a lot cheaper

BEISSEN · 07/15/2006, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecrow1414

damn arachno your worst than a woman when it comes to making up your mind. few months ago you said there wasn't a chance in hell you would go boost now your going to do it? lol. and just think you could have gotten boost a lot cheaper

ARACHNO · 07/15/2006, 11:01 AM

w/e, no where does it say I am not allowed to change my mind alot. Its a big step for me...may not have been for you, but it is for me. I did not say i was straight up getting a turbo kit...I said I am taking it into consideration since Russ is doing the payment plan. I am not about to go into debt with a credit card.

newdrifter5 · 07/15/2006, 11:28 AM

i think theres alot of misinformation on this subject. People should REALLY research before they post. First off the bmw m3 uses itbs and a maf and is one of the best N/A powerplants ever for its size. Skylines use itbs and i believe nissan pulsars which was a little mini skyline AWD and TURBO. ITBs on our cars WOULD NOT COST 6000. The hardest thing about putting itbs on a car not equipped is tuning. Tuning off a MAP signal is very hard because it becomes very erratic when the throttle is punched dropping very quickly and rising the same. Thats y almost all running itb setups use tps signals as a main reference. but if u incorporate a plenum into ur systems u can now run a maf sensor which until now i never really thought about(being a honda guy for many years) which should really help that problem since all factory itb cars seems to have been running them m3, skyline, pulsar. So, if u can have a plenum attached to ur itbs, tuning with a reflash will be very feasible and i believe drivablility very nice due to our air metering sytem. But u may not be very pleased with them without larger cams(stage 2 and up) since i always hear about itbs responding well to big cams. But they would DEFINATELY be a upgrade from our VERY restrictive intake setup stock. Im always down to talk about some itb setups(i have 2 in my grage right now) so lets keep this topic rolling.

Crow · 07/15/2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARACHNO

Well the major thing is man, I am waiting on that settlement because I am ordering everything from tearstone at once and getting it all tuned at once. I just don't have a lot of free time, so I need to get it done at once. College and football is so hard to work around. And another thing, I am waiting to see if tearstone can find someone to fab up that downpipe needed on those long tube headers he sells. Right now, its just a waiting game. soon as the settlement comes in, I am ordering everything for the car down to the final bolt that i plan on putting on. interior, under the hood, wheels...everything. But after re-reading your post...one MAJOR reason I am not going and blowing money on these things. I am going to do it right the first time...not going to buy one thing and then I have to end up taking it off and buying something else and putting it on. You see? like if I was to go with ITB's, I would have to toss the intake and the upgraded throttle body and the apexi safc for a standalone and the six pack ITB's. I am very nit picky and I hate spending money twice. I just want to do it right. and you are right, the torque converter will help.

going back to randy's comments about starting small. with how much you still have to learn about cars starting small is the smart idea so you don't fuck up your car. spend some time at the library and read up and learn this stuff so you dont have to rely on people you have never met to tell you how stuff works. please do this before you go boost if you do otherwise i feel sorry for your car.

mozart4898 · 07/15/2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newdrifter5

i think theres alot of misinformation on this subject. People should REALLY research before they post. First off the bmw m3 uses itbs and a maf and is one of the best N/A powerplants ever for its size. Skylines use itbs and i believe nissan pulsars which was a little mini skyline AWD and TURBO. ITBs on our cars WOULD NOT COST 6000. The hardest thing about putting itbs on a car not equipped is tuning. Tuning off a MAP signal is very hard because it becomes very erratic when the throttle is punched dropping very quickly and rising the same. Thats y almost all running itb setups use tps signals as a main reference. but if u incorporate a plenum into ur systems u can now run a maf sensor which until now i never really thought about(being a honda guy for many years) which should really help that problem since all factory itb cars seems to have been running them m3, skyline, pulsar. So, if u can have a plenum attached to ur itbs, tuning with a reflash will be very feasible and i believe drivablility very nice due to our air metering sytem. But u may not be very pleased with them without larger cams(stage 2 and up) since i always hear about itbs responding well to big cams. But they would DEFINATELY be a upgrade from our VERY restrictive intake setup stock. Im always down to talk about some itb setups(i have 2 in my grage right now) so lets keep this topic rolling.

No one said they weren't effective, just a bit of reading tells you that they'd work. However, you're using as your examples cars that already come with ITBs! How can you compare that to our car, which the last I checked, only has one throttle body? OK, somehow you fabricate a plenum to work with the RPW 6 pack throttle body (but something in my mind tells me that defeats the purpose of them anyways and also just plain won't fit under the hood). You still have 6 throttle bodies, and a stock ECU that's only set up to control 1. What I mean to say is, when you press down on the gas (the "throttle") it opens the throttle body, 1 of them. If you add 5 more, how are you going to control that? Sure, simply opening and closing them is probably just a matter of the throttle cable, but there's more to it than that. The ECU meters everything - don't you think that it'll get just the slightest bit thrown off by the effects of 6 throttle bodies, instead of the 1 that we have stock? Regardless of how it's metered or what signal you're tuning off of, how does the stock ECU (even reflashed) deal with the effect of 6 independent throttle bodies? How, now, do you not have a tuning issue that would require a standalone?

ARACHNO · 07/15/2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecrow1414

going back to randy's comments about starting small. with how much you still have to learn about cars starting small is the smart idea so you don't fuck up your car. spend some time at the library and read up and learn this stuff so you dont have to rely on people you have never met to tell you how stuff works. please do this before you go boost if you do otherwise i feel sorry for your car.

I would never do something like that. I read up on everything posted every single day. I just dont sit around waiting for people to reply. I search and search, pages on top of pages. I have just not yet decided.

Clipse3GT · 07/15/2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARACHNO

I would never do something like that. I read up on everything posted every single day. I just dont sit around waiting for people to reply. I search and search, pages on top of pages. I have just not yet decided.

Just get some 20lbs bottles and call it a day.

mozart4898 · 07/15/2006, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipse3GT

Just get some 20lbs bottles and call it a day.

Damn ricers...

ARACHNO · 07/15/2006, 05:16 PM

GIVE ME NOS!!!11!1!one!!1!1!

Not.

newdrifter5 · 07/16/2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mozart4898

However, you're using as your examples cars that already come with ITBs! How can you compare that to our car, which the last I checked, only has one throttle body? OK, somehow you fabricate a plenum to work with the RPW 6 pack throttle body (but something in my mind tells me that defeats the purpose of them anyways and also just plain won't fit under the hood). You still have 6 throttle bodies, and a stock ECU that's only set up to control 1. What I mean to say is, when you press down on the gas (the "throttle") it opens the throttle body, 1 of them. If you add 5 more, how are you going to control that? Sure, simply opening and closing them is probably just a matter of the throttle cable, but there's more to it than that. The ECU meters everything - don't you think that it'll get just the slightest bit thrown off by the effects of 6 throttle bodies, instead of the 1 that we have stock? Regardless of how it's metered or what signal you're tuning off of, how does the stock ECU (even reflashed) deal with the effect of 6 independent throttle bodies? How, now, do you not have a tuning issue that would require a standalone?

1st: I used the example of the m3 skyline and pulsar to show what 3 factory itb equipped cars with notable performance have in common: plenums, maf sensors, and very stock drivablility.

2nd: the ecu does not control our throttle body, since last time i checked were not drive by wire.The ecu does get a tps signal off the side of onefor assessing load. All itbs ive ever seen still have tps sensors so thats not a problem.

3rd, a simple linkage system opens and closes all the throttle bodies at the same time so thats not really an issue EXCEPT for setting all of them to close the same which is just a little fine tuning.

Lastly yes i DONT think these could be tuned on our cars in 5 minutes with a proper setup. It would be a little tricky but i think the very capable reflash with its ability to control fuel and ignition tables would be able to get it sorted out on a dyno with alot of tlc. U have to remember the MAIN item telling how much fuel to inject is the maf which only reads how much air is passing thru it. U nail the gas with an itb setup its gonna read the airflow change and send a proper signal. Im very hopeful for this concept and will probably be goin the N/a myself on my gts in the future. Long live the 3g!

newdrifter5 · 07/16/2006, 09:46 PM

Ive been a lurker on many different forums for about 6 years now and this is the first ive decided to start being involved in. I dont wish to cause controversy or agressive debate just share some thoughts and maybe some of my observations. Carry on

ARACHNO · 07/16/2006, 10:05 PM

Your input is very much appreciated man, no problem.

garn · 07/16/2006, 10:13 PM

My opinion on this matter, www.honda-tech.com, there are many DIY setups that have been completed over there, honda-tech is a GREAT resource on car matters in general, not just honda stuff, in case any of you were not aware of this

I think an ITB setup is probably more than you are wanting to deal with tuning wise ARACHNO.. and really, there isn't much use unless you do a full NA buildup imo

I think u should get project car

ARACHNO · 07/16/2006, 10:21 PM

I was waiting on you to reply, haha. yeah I am not going to attempt it. I just wanted to post because that video sparked my enthusiasm so I figured I would get some input on it and see what it took.

btw, I saw your girl's car today, I couldn't tell who was driving it. Does she live in Steeple Chase?? We were looking at houses in Appletree.

07/13/2006, 09:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	ITB (Independent Throttle Bodies)...discuss? Well I don't think this has been discussed before, so I am wanting to do this thread. What exactly is required to run ITB's, how does it hook up to the car, and its it bolt on or weld on? I am pretty sure a greddy emanage would be needed to tune, correct? But what else would be needed to run it sufficiently?? Also, is it made for only track cars or can daily driven cars have them or what?? This video right here really sparked my enthusiasm...I usually hate honda's, but this thing sounds fuckin wicked. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...78f042a005.htm

07/14/2006, 12:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
mozart4898 back to the 3G... Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Woodville, OH Vehicle: 2001 Eclipse Spyder GT Posts: 1,654	Well, I read this thread yesterday and then after you posted in my thread asking my advice, I thought I'd come back again... Honestly, I don't know how practical this really would be for us. If someone was out to prove the N/A capability of this engine, this would definitely be a good route to go. However, 6 throttle bodies, one for each cylinder, there's no way you'd be able to get the stock ECU to handle that. I don't think there'd even be a way with a reflash. I'm 99.99% positive you'd need a standalone to control this. I know for a fact that Kris (Clipse3GT) spent probably almost $4000 getting his Haltech to work (parts and tuning). (And work it does...) But that's with he himself doing the install and then having the baseline tuned at a shop. And then the 6 pack throttle body from RPW is what, like $2000 as well? So figure at a minimum you'd probably be looking at $6000 to get this up and running...and then how streetable will it really be? No way to know since no one else has done it on our cars. Not saying you're not willing to put some money into your car (and I really do understand the whole thing about researching and planning your path without buying parts haphazardly...however it's hard for me to keep from buying some things now and then so I haven't been able to stick quite to it like that...), but I think that, especially given what your goals seem to be, if you're planning to drop $6000 on your car, you'd be a lot further ahead to get either a Tearstone turbo or SDS, OR go with the N/A route that's been discussed by you, me, and several others - cams, P&P, throttle body/intake manifold (manifold not in your case), possibly higher compression (again in your case you've already got 10:1), and then eManage. In short, unless you win the lottery soon Arachno, I don't think the ITB idea is too practical for our cars. Now if someone has an almost endless bank and wanted to try it for $hits and giggles, well then, more power to them. I just hope they don't think they're going to have a good grocery getter...unless they like ricing around, cruising at 5000 RPMs Although I am a big supporter of the idea that "it's your car, if it makes you happy, then it's cool." (i.e. I'm not the one who tells people who ask questions about, say, an all wheel drive 3G, "Just buy an Evo.") If you want to be the guinea pig for us and try it, I'd love to see how it works out. Last edited by mozart4898; 07/14/2006 at 12:18 PM.

07/15/2006, 11:01 AM	#19 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	w/e, no where does it say I am not allowed to change my mind alot. Its a big step for me...may not have been for you, but it is for me. I did not say i was straight up getting a turbo kit...I said I am taking it into consideration since Russ is doing the payment plan. I am not about to go into debt with a credit card. Last edited by ARACHNO; 07/15/2006 at 11:06 AM.

07/16/2006, 10:13 PM	#30 (permalink)
garn terbo lood Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: Honda Prelude Posts: 327	My opinion on this matter, www.honda-tech.com, there are many DIY setups that have been completed over there, honda-tech is a GREAT resource on car matters in general, not just honda stuff, in case any of you were not aware of this I think an ITB setup is probably more than you are wanting to deal with tuning wise ARACHNO.. and really, there isn't much use unless you do a full NA buildup imo I think u should get project car __________________ -'95 Prelude Si -'03 SV650

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07/13/2006, 10:12 PM	#3 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	man this sounds interesting. what is your thoughts on this Tearstone? Do you have or know anyone with experience in these, like what kind of torque and whp we could expect? So your saying not even a greddy e-manage would be sufficient?? What about the whole mynes reflash thing?? I believe this is a major step towards getting some good numbers out of a n/a application with the 6g72. I had read on their site before that they carried them and everything, but never really payed attention to it because I didn't know what it was. I am trying to understand what is the pros to doing this and how exactly it works. Wouldn't it suck in dirt and harmful particles into your engine, because if I am not mistaken, each individual throttle body is open. I already plan on getting headers, stage 1 cam, aeromotive FPR, upgraded plugs and wires, torque convertor, tranny cooler, and i WAS going to get s-afc, aem v2 intake and a 65 mm rpw tb. but I wonder how this six pack with a hell of a tune would yield?? very very interesting. I know one things for sure, this car would sound like hell is being unleashed when the go-fast pedal hit the floor.

07/13/2006, 10:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	Oh and by the way Tear, have you found someone yet to fab up that pipe for the street series budget long tube headers? If you can find someone to do it so you can sell the headers with a high flow cat with the downpipe on those headers, I would definately buy them. I am just worried about getting raped from a shop having the downpipe made for me.

07/13/2006, 10:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	Oh and one more thing. haha. Do you know if there is a shift kit made for the 3g?? I was on IPT's website and at one time, they had the 3g shift kit listed, but I am not seeing it now. Just trying to think of ways to make the car faster without boost. One VERY interesting thing i found on this website though, its that they carry a Limited Slip Differential for the automatic 3g's. I didn't know they existed, I was for sure it was for stick shifts only. They have the Translab Shift kit, but in the description it says DSM...but I wonder if it would work for our cars as well? http://www.importperformancetrans.co...uto.shtml#main

07/13/2006, 11:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
icemanrld19 stupid booster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: claysburg, camden, martinsburg, bridgeport, addison/dallas. Vehicle: Single snailed spyder Posts: 7,065	Arachno are you ever going to buy any performance parts? Ive noticed you have alot of threads on what you want to do. Why dont u get something first and start from there instead of trying to figure out the best performance package for your car without actually buying something

07/13/2006, 11:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	Money man, I don't have trees that grow money. Lawyer's are being a bitch and keep pushing the court date back, waiting on a settlement from a car accident. Sorry for exploring my options.

07/13/2006, 11:42 PM	#8 (permalink)
icemanrld19 stupid booster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: claysburg, camden, martinsburg, bridgeport, addison/dallas. Vehicle: Single snailed spyder Posts: 7,065	No no man dont take my post like i was giving you shit or anything. Im just saying buy something and start messing with it. Wouldnt a tq converter help you alot even without major power add ons? After that start messing with the ecu reflash and adding mods like I/h/E and then start messing with throttle bodies and that type of shit. Do the simple stuff first cause if u have to eventually get a piggyback or standalone system the money starts adding up. Once you get pretty far theres no turning back

07/13/2006, 11:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	Well the major thing is man, I am waiting on that settlement because I am ordering everything from tearstone at once and getting it all tuned at once. I just don't have a lot of free time, so I need to get it done at once. College and football is so hard to work around. And another thing, I am waiting to see if tearstone can find someone to fab up that downpipe needed on those long tube headers he sells. Right now, its just a waiting game. soon as the settlement comes in, I am ordering everything for the car down to the final bolt that i plan on putting on. interior, under the hood, wheels...everything. But after re-reading your post...one MAJOR reason I am not going and blowing money on these things. I am going to do it right the first time...not going to buy one thing and then I have to end up taking it off and buying something else and putting it on. You see? like if I was to go with ITB's, I would have to toss the intake and the upgraded throttle body and the apexi safc for a standalone and the six pack ITB's. I am very nit picky and I hate spending money twice. I just want to do it right. and you are right, the torque converter will help.

07/13/2006, 11:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
icemanrld19 stupid booster Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: claysburg, camden, martinsburg, bridgeport, addison/dallas. Vehicle: Single snailed spyder Posts: 7,065	good i was just testing your thinking and you passed. Do it right the first time is always the best. Ask my stock clutch with 5psi at the time or my stock motor since some stupid fuck didnt install the emanage correctly. Its all good now cause I HAVE checked everything. Goodluck

07/13/2006, 11:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	haha yeah man, i know i may change my mind alot and make a shit ton of posts and yes I get alot of hell from people, but I don't care...I am doing this right the first time. Its ALOT of money to spend to change my mind a few months down the road. btw, if anyone has any information to share on the ITB's, please feel free to chime in.

07/14/2006, 11:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	bump...anyone?

07/14/2006, 12:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Clipse3GT Ah yes... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, OH Vehicle: 00 GT RIPP STG.3 & EVO X Posts: 10,888	Sigh, I figure I might as well venture into this what if post. IBT setup is a perfect solution for a naturally aspirated car. However, if I was going to do this I would do a shit of research. You will want a free flowing motor with ITB's. That means, you will need to do a high compression piston swap, lightened rods, lightened crank, light weight flywheel, and then get some aggressive N/A cams. Port and Polish job on the heads. No need to upgrade the valves since you won't be flowing as much as a SDS or Turbo. Now lets say you will have all this done. Now you don't have to worry about a intake manifold etc... or intake piping. However, you will have to get rid of your EGR system, which means your cruise control is gone as well, and if you want really fast reving engine, get rid of the A/C system and get a lightened crank pulley. Anything that will keep this motor high reving and very responsive. Now with a N/A motor you want response. So that means injector upgrade. You will want peak and hold injectors, they are 3ohm usually and very responsive as compared to a saturated injector that is 12-15ohm. You want response, its a good thing . So now you are like okay that's not too bad I can do that. Hold up!!! FUEL MANAGEMENT & IGNITION by far one of the most critical parts in a EFI engine. Now you have 6 ITB's NOT 1! How in the world will you control this the stock ECU, reflash or not is going to take shit when it see's this. And how the fuck would you incoporate hte MAS, ding! So there is NO STOCK ECU, NO REFLASH, NO EMANAGE. You don't have any of those options, what option you have is a standalone. I recommend Haltech best bang for the buck. That's a 1500-2000 dollar expense. With 6 IBT's you will need a Haltech E11v2, the E8 doesn't support 6 injectors in sequential firing order. So now you are like oh shit, this will cost a lot of money. Yup, but its not it. Now you have to hook in a standalone, its not 1+1 = 2. You will need to find a authorized dealer and tooning shop for this. I spent 2 grand in labor and tuning for my haltech to work as smooth as butter. If you are up for the challange, I will want to see the results

07/14/2006, 12:38 PM	#15 (permalink)
Clipse3GT Ah yes... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Cleveland, OH Vehicle: 00 GT RIPP STG.3 & EVO X Posts: 10,888	Here is a video of IBT's in action. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/d...78f042a005.htm

07/14/2006, 12:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	I posted that earlier Clipse Thank you for the replies, that is all I needed to know. I didn't realize it would take all that, which is why I made this in the first place. It just sparked my enthusiasm. I think I will go buy that apexi SAFC 1 next week for $25 from a buddy of mine locally and just do my original plan. I emailed the person at TPS to see what kind payment plans they are going to do for the raceblock and the turbo kit. That would be more feasible than this I believe. THanks again guys. We need to find someone willing to be the guinea pig.

07/15/2006, 10:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
Crow Resident Asshole Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Albany, OH Vehicle: 2010 Civic Posts: 5,939	damn arachno your worst than a woman when it comes to making up your mind. few months ago you said there wasn't a chance in hell you would go boost now your going to do it? lol. and just think you could have gotten boost a lot cheaper

07/15/2006, 11:28 AM	#20 (permalink)
newdrifter5 torque user Join Date: Apr 2005 Vehicle: 03 eclipse gts black Posts: 7	i think theres alot of misinformation on this subject. People should REALLY research before they post. First off the bmw m3 uses itbs and a maf and is one of the best N/A powerplants ever for its size. Skylines use itbs and i believe nissan pulsars which was a little mini skyline AWD and TURBO. ITBs on our cars WOULD NOT COST 6000. The hardest thing about putting itbs on a car not equipped is tuning. Tuning off a MAP signal is very hard because it becomes very erratic when the throttle is punched dropping very quickly and rising the same. Thats y almost all running itb setups use tps signals as a main reference. but if u incorporate a plenum into ur systems u can now run a maf sensor which until now i never really thought about(being a honda guy for many years) which should really help that problem since all factory itb cars seems to have been running them m3, skyline, pulsar. So, if u can have a plenum attached to ur itbs, tuning with a reflash will be very feasible and i believe drivablility very nice due to our air metering sytem. But u may not be very pleased with them without larger cams(stage 2 and up) since i always hear about itbs responding well to big cams. But they would DEFINATELY be a upgrade from our VERY restrictive intake setup stock. Im always down to talk about some itb setups(i have 2 in my grage right now) so lets keep this topic rolling.

07/15/2006, 05:16 PM	#26 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	GIVE ME NOS!!!11!1!one!!1!1! Not.

07/16/2006, 09:46 PM	#28 (permalink)
newdrifter5 torque user Join Date: Apr 2005 Vehicle: 03 eclipse gts black Posts: 7	Ive been a lurker on many different forums for about 6 years now and this is the first ive decided to start being involved in. I dont wish to cause controversy or agressive debate just share some thoughts and maybe some of my observations. Carry on

07/16/2006, 10:05 PM	#29 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	Your input is very much appreciated man, no problem.

07/16/2006, 10:21 PM	#31 (permalink)
ARACHNO SPYDEY MF! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Vehicle: 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 GT Posts: 5,225	I was waiting on you to reply, haha. yeah I am not going to attempt it. I just wanted to post because that video sparked my enthusiasm so I figured I would get some input on it and see what it took. btw, I saw your girl's car today, I couldn't tell who was driving it. Does she live in Steeple Chase?? We were looking at houses in Appletree.