power shifting

[thisguy801]

So I was looking at some videos on shifting techniques some people use for the 1/4 mile and ran across power shifting, it looks like a really solid way of shifting on the strip but I have no clue, anybody here use it or have a different method that they feel works better. If so what do you do and why do you feel it works better.

[yahh]

Just use your clutch man. You won't shave off much time by "power shifting" and if done incorrectly you can cause a lot of damage to your tranny. You won't be setting any world records soon so be happy with your 13/14 second car and enjoy it. A FWD 3000 lb car is not ever going to be a super fast drag car, accept it.

[thisguy801]

thats not the issue what ever time I get I will be happy with I was just watching some vidoes and they kept using the word power shifting and so i was curious. I'm happy with the car just want to make sure I do everything I'm supposed to thank you for your feedback, it definately makes sense on how you can do some serious damage to a tranny doing that.

[ccarrillo717]

In

[thisguy801]

[chavezeclipse]

he means in before thread close or goto OT again.

anyways i wouldn't power shift whether you mean not using clutch or how some people just floor it and never let off gas and just shift. just drive it normal down the track. launching is the only real thing you need to worry about.

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by ccarrillo717

In

if ya don't mind me asking why do you always post one word hahaha you probably know alot about the subject even when i was being bashed i think you said two words, why so quiet?

[thisguy801]

gotcha well my question was answered so how do i put it into ot?

[Red Sun]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

gotcha well my question was answered so how do i put it into ot?

Why would you want it to go to OT?

That's suicide

[thisguy801]

well cause my question was answered unless you guys want to keep talking about it I would love to hear all sorts of input

[thisguy801]

so i need some help on this forum lingo whats in before thread closes or go to ot?

[04blueEclipse]

Power shifting is a good technique, Ifffff you have lots of experience and have a real fast car. Boost stays constant throughout the gears since you don't let off the accelerator and no clutch. (Correct Me if I'm wrong.) But its dangerous Like Yahh said, you can mess your car up pretty good. And you wont shave much time.

[Red Sun]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

so i need some help on this forum lingo whats in before thread closes or go to ot?

In is basically when you are in before a thread gets closed due to it already being answered, wrong section, or the question is stupid, many reasons for a thread to be closed.

OT is hell. You don't want to be there. Like, at all.

[thisguy801]

gotcha and so what about double clutching? from what i saw it seems to give a little bit of a hop into the next gear right? I'm not really looking to shave time I just know everyone does things different and im curious on all these little tricks.

[thisguy801]

believe me i have been to ot hahaha i know it isnt fun

[thisguy801]

i like your profile picture it fits the situation hahaha

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by 04blueEclipse

Power shifting is a good technique, Ifffff you have lots of experience and have a real fast car. Boost stays constant throughout the gears since you don't let off the accelerator and no clutch. (Correct Me if I'm wrong.) But its dangerous Like Yahh said, you can mess your car up pretty good. And you wont shave much time.

yeah i by no means have the expierence to be able to do that properly haha

[04blueEclipse]

Depends how much money you want to put into your trans I don't know what you've done to yours but I don't think Double clutching while racing would be good for your Stock trans?

[Red Sun]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

believe me i have been to ot hahaha i know it isnt fun

Also, a mod can move you're thread to OT if he sees potential for, most of the time, the OP to get flammed. Only certain mods can do so.

Once you're thread has been moved, its a green light for everyone in OT to come and flame you're ass. Usually the thread name gets switched to a more, fitting title.

[ccarrillo717]

I love how noobs try to help other noobs let him fail on his own

[04blueEclipse]

Originally Posted by Red Sun

Also, a mod can move you're thread to OT if he sees potential for, most of the time, the OP to get flammed. Only certain mods can do so.

Once you're thread has been moved, its a green light for everyone in OT to come and flame you're ass. Usually the thread name gets switched to a more, fitting title.

And probably Cocknozzeled!

[chavezeclipse]

well you are running low boost with a 6 cylinders from a mivec 3.8 i really don't think you need to worry about turbo lag seriously. now if you are running a 4g63 with an .80 trim turbo sure, it is worth it. like i said focus on launching, shift just as quickly as possible why still properly disengaging clutch and not missing gears. you will do fine. hell even if you fuck up your launch you will still fly like hell down the track. i am guessing you never drove a powerful car before at the track correct?

[thisguy801]

yeah thats correct i had an srt4 but the syncros were crap when i bought the vehical so this is my first powerful vehical, and what does op mean?

[thisguy801]

ok well im excited to go down i have paid for a spot on midnight drags for next friday so we will see how i do I will definately post pics and videos im not expecting a whole lot honestly i will probably stall hahahaha

[yahh]

Vehicle. OP= Original Post/Poster. Power shifting will cause your syncros to crap out on you just like your srt-4 did.

[thisguy801]

well im definately not going to powershift i think i will just follow everyones advice and just give it my all with normal shifting. i dont have the $$$ to be replacing a transmission

[GTmitsu]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

gotcha and so what about double clutching? from what i saw it seems to give a little bit of a hop into the next gear right? I'm not really looking to shave time I just know everyone does things different and im curious on all these little tricks.

Double Clutching only exists on cars where there is no synchronization between gears. If you're double clutching in your Mitsu, the gearbox is fucked and needs to be replaced. Most cars built in the 80's thru today are synchronized - clutch in, shift to nuetral, shift to gear, clutch out. Double clutching is clutch in, shift to nuetral, clutch out, clutch in, shift gears, clutch out. My dads 47 Chevy has an unsynchronized clutch. It's a bitch to drive. Double clutching delays the time between gears, which results in loss of RPM's, which results in loss of boost, which results in people hating on you at the track. There is no "hop" into the next gear, just loss of power.

Originally Posted by thisguy801

yeah thats correct i had an srt4 but the syncros were crap when i bought the vehical so this is my first powerful vehical, and what does op mean?

An SRT4 is a shitbox, by no means is it a powerful car. I'd hardly call your 3g a powerful car either.

[Voodoo]

This thread is full of fail.

Double clutching is used for *downshifting* in a car with bad/no synchros. Shift to neutral, blip throttle, shift to lower gear. This way, the speed of the input shaft is increased to match the speed of the output shaft before the gear change takes place. It has nothing to do with faster in a straight line like every avid F&F fanatic seems to think.

Power (clutchless) shifting is overall a bad idea and will cause a lot of wear on your synchros. However, being that you're turbo, one thing you can look into is NLS (or NLTS), which stands for No Lift To Shift. Depending on what device you're using to tune your car, you may or may not be able to do this.

The idea is that you install a switch on your clutch pedal (or use the existing cruise control kill switch, if available) and program it so that it that causes the car to cut fuel (and optionally ignition) as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed. This allows you to keep the *gas* pedal on the floor in between shifts. In most cases, this allows you to shift marginally faster, but it's even more useful in turbocharged applications because it reduces the loss of boost between shifts...

...Because:

• If the gas pedal is not raised, the throttle body does not close
• If the throttle body is not closed, there is no vacuum created in the intake manifold (between the throttle body and intake valves)
• If there is no vacuum in the intake manifold, the blow-off valve (BOV) does not open
• If the BOV does not open, it does not release the hard-earned boost pressure into the atmosphere
• Since the throttle plate is left wide open during the shift, the engine continues to pump boost pressure through the system without any worry of compressor surge or other negative side effects of closing the throttle plate quickly on a turbo-charged application

The turbo keeps spinning, the engine keeps pumping, everybody's happy.

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

This thread is full of fail.

Double clutching is used for *downshifting* in a car with bad/no synchros. Shift to neutral, blip throttle, shift to lower gear. This way, the speed of the input shaft is increased to match the speed of the output shaft before the gear change takes place. It has nothing to do with faster in a straight line like every avid F&F fanatic seems to think.

Power (clutchless) shifting is overall a bad idea and will cause a lot of wear on your synchros. However, being that you're turbo, one thing you can look into is NLS (or NLTS), which stands for No Lift To Shift. Depending on what device you're using to tune your car, you may or may not be able to do this.

The idea is that you install a switch on your clutch pedal (or use the existing cruise control kill switch, if available) and program it so that it that causes the car to cut fuel (and optionally ignition) as soon as the clutch pedal is pressed. This allows you to keep the *gas* pedal on the floor in between shifts. In most cases, this allows you to shift marginally faster, but it's even more useful in turbocharged applications because it reduces the loss of boost between shifts...

...Because:

• If the gas pedal is not raised, the throttle body does not close
• If the throttle body is not closed, there is no vacuum created in the intake manifold (between the throttle body and intake valves)
• If there is no vacuum in the intake manifold, the blow-off valve (BOV) does not open
• If the BOV does not open, it does not release the hard-earned boost pressure into the atmosphere
• Since the throttle plate is left wide open during the shift, the engine continues to pump boost pressure through the system without any worry of compressor surge or other negative side effects of closing the throttle plate quickly on a turbo-charged application

The turbo keeps spinning, the engine keeps pumping, everybody's happy.

thats excellent advice thanks for taking the time for that extremely informational post i appreciate it, it gives me an idea if i ever wanted something like that for my car thank you

[Voodoo]

No prob. What are you using to tune with?

[chavezeclipse]

huh, well then i double clutch everytime lol. never actually realized that was the term for it. i always do it to make the change smoother

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

No prob. What are you using to tune with?

megasquirt running ms2 firmware.

[Tx4Codeman]

Originally Posted by chavezeclipse

how some people just floor it and never let off gas and just shift.

Always called it a No Lift Shift, myself. Feels pretty violent inside the car, and I've had a local member only have a working diff shortly after he began using this technique. Only if us v6 guys were as fortunate as the evo members to limit the rev limiter based on clutch engagement.

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by chavezeclipse

huh, well then i double clutch everytime lol. never actually realized that was the term for it. i always do it to make the change smoother

atta' boy haha

[chavezeclipse]

Originally Posted by Tx4Codeman

Always called it a No Lift Shift, myself. Feels pretty violent inside the car, and I've had a local member only have a working diff shortly after he began using this technique.

whne i downshift i always blip the throttle so you don't feel the engine move.


nissan 370z transmission does it for you

(talking about double clutching)

[chavezeclipse]

wait the diff only started working after they started doing that? i just had a mean double take on that. that is weird.

[Voodoo]

Very cool... I think you may be the first I've heard of using MegaSquirt on this platform.

Looks like it's called "Flat-Shift" in MS world... lots of the Cobb tuning platforms refer to it as "flat-foot shifting". I'm not sure about MS2, but you can definitely set it up in MS3:
Megasquirt-3 - Launch control / Flat-shift / 2-step / 3-step

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Very cool... I think you may be the first I've heard of using MegaSquirt on this platform.

Looks like it's called "Flat-Shift" in MS world... lots of the Cobb tuning platforms refer to it as "flat-foot shifting". I'm not sure about MS2, but you can definitely set it up in MS3:
Megasquirt-3 - Launch control / Flat-shift / 2-step / 3-step

hmmmm i wonder... could i just remap the system to handle ms3?

[Tx4Codeman]

Originally Posted by chavezeclipse

wait the diff only started working after they started doing that? i just had a mean double take on that. that is weird.

I mean he broke it. He only had a working dif a short time after he started using the technique. Broke it within a month. And I'm not talking about downshifting. This is in reference to using the method at the strip. I've never done it myself.

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Very cool... I think you may be the first I've heard of using MegaSquirt on this platform.

Looks like it's called "Flat-Shift" in MS world... lots of the Cobb tuning platforms refer to it as "flat-foot shifting". I'm not sure about MS2, but you can definitely set it up in MS3:
Megasquirt-3 - Launch control / Flat-shift / 2-step / 3-step

also reading that link you posted it sounds like i have to re engauge it after every gear correct? or once it hits stage 3 im good?

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Tx4Codeman

I mean he broke it. He only had a working dif a short time after he started using the technique. Broke it within a month. And I'm not talking about downshifting. This is in reference to using the method at the strip. I've never done it myself.

that sounds quite expensive

[chavezeclipse]

ah i see. me personally i never have WOT during shifting, it sounds stupid, but i have heard of others doing it and watched it at the track.

[Tx4Codeman]

Originally Posted by chavezeclipse

ah i see. me personally i never have WOT during shifting, it sounds stupid, but i have heard of others doing it and watched it at the track.

Evo guys are able to do it with a patch, iirc. And what it does is lower the rev limiter while the clutch is disengaged. That way you are not pegging the true rev limiter. This can also provide a smoother transition into the next gear based on the rpm range set.

[chavezeclipse]

while upshifting i do the same as downshifting just barely blip it. just enough to cock the engine the other way so you don't feel the shift. you can shift incredibly fast without doing all the revving nonsense.

[chavezeclipse]

should see the mazda 6 guys running 2 step. it's pretty cool.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

also reading that link you posted it sounds like i have to re engauge it after every gear correct? or once it hits stage 3 im good?

I don't know anything about MegaSquirt, but that wouldn't make too much sense. Usually it's set up so that it activates above a certain RPM threshold and then engages when you press the clutch. I don't know why you'd have to re-enable it every time... I think that would be kind of counterproductive when you're trying to save time going down the track

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

I don't know anything about MegaSquirt, but that wouldn't make too much sense. Usually it's set up so that it activates above a certain RPM threshold and then engages when you press the clutch. I don't know why you'd have to re-enable it every time... I think that would be kind of counterproductive when you're trying to save time going down the track

makes perfect sense well i think im definately going to get it installed and working see if it's A: possible to put ms3 on my current setup B: if i can than install and see if it works i will keep you guys updated for sure

[Silvertune]

A well set up turbo system won't loose too much with quick precise shifts on a big motor like the 6g75. A good high volume vent that completely eliminates surge and the right hotside to get back into the turbo quickly with that kind of displacement wouldn't be that difficult to make. It wouldn't eliminate boost loss all together but it wouldn't be like driving a big turbo on a 4 cylinder.

[thisguy801]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

A well set up turbo system won't loose too much with quick precise shifts on a big motor like the 6g75. A good high volume vent that completely eliminates surge and the right hotside to get back into the turbo quickly with that kind of displacement wouldn't be that difficult to make. It wouldn't eliminate boost loss all together but it wouldn't be like driving a big turbo on a 4 cylinder.

thats makes alot of sense i think ms3 setup and the proper setup for the turbo would just be insane... I don't really know how good of a setup my turbo is in all honesty (probably should look into that)

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

A well set up turbo system won't loose too much with quick precise shifts on a big motor like the 6g75. A good high volume vent that completely eliminates surge and the right hotside to get back into the turbo quickly with that kind of displacement wouldn't be that difficult to make. It wouldn't eliminate boost loss all together but it wouldn't be like driving a big turbo on a 4 cylinder.

Honestly, I don't think adding NLS to my setup really improved my times all that much; my shifts were pretty quick without it. My turbo is big enough to carry the inertia between gears, yet small enough that it doesn't lag when getting back into it.

[Silvertune]

Originally Posted by thisguy801

thats makes alot of sense i think ms3 setup and the proper setup for the turbo would just be insane... I don't really know how good of a setup my turbo is in all honesty (probably should look into that)

It's a pretty small turbo. 10 psi on something bigger would be a lot more efficient and a lot more powerful but the problem is the 75 isn't good for higher boost so you're probably doing about as good as you can on the stock motor as far as output. There are, however, many things you can do to help pick up time like lightening things up and getting the grip support you need.

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Honestly, I don't think adding NLS to my setup really improved my times all that much; my shifts were pretty quick without it. My turbo is big enough to carry the inertia between gears, yet small enough that it doesn't lag when getting back into it.

Exactly. You've probably got the right sized intercooler setup too which is also a balance between spooling (you have to fill those pipes before the engine) and having a volume on hand when you open the throttle again after a shift.