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Old 07/17/2007, 10:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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32 bit XP/Vista and RAM

I have a question. I know the 32Bit OS can't see the full 4Gb of RAM but has anyone ever put that much (or anything over 2Gb) and see how much it actually sees? I'm thinking of adding more to my laptop which is at 2Gb now but if it will only see 2.5 I'll buy a 1Gb chip. if it will see upwards of 3Gb or even use more than that in the background somehow I'll spend the extra $40 for another 2Gb chip.
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Old 07/17/2007, 11:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Good question, I've been wondering about this.
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Old 07/17/2007, 12:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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As far as I know, XP could see a full 4gb setup, but that was the max. Vista on the other hand can see much more than that, I'm just not sure how much more.
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Old 07/17/2007, 01:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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http://www.microsoft.com/smallbusine...reWindows.aspx
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Old 07/17/2007, 01:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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32 bit XP goes upto 3.2gb (i think), vista business and above, 32 bit, go upto 4gb. 64 bit vista is 16gb.
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Old 07/17/2007, 01:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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see, I heard that, but then I read stuff like this.
4GB vs. 2GB memory upgrade - Windows Vista Forums

so I'm not sure wtf reality is. that's why I wanted to see if there was someone here that actually did it.
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Old 07/17/2007, 01:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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32 bit XP goes upto 3.2gb (i think), vista business and above, 32 bit, go upto 4gb. 64 bit vista is 16gb.
Are you saying my home PC with Vista Home Premium is at max 2GB?
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Old 07/17/2007, 01:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Are you saying my home PC with Vista Home Premium is at max 2GB?
I believe home premium comes up to 4gb, will check
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ok here is what i've found so far on the vista forums.

vista 32bit will go up to 4Gb with something called a 3Gb switch (which I still can't figure out how to do this) but because of hardware and MB configs you might only see from 2.75Gb up to 3.5Gb. the reason is the rest is being used by hardware.

Vista 64 home will see up to 16Gb

Vista business and Ultimate 64 will see up to 128Gb.
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...AE/PAEdrv.mspx
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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read that. its not for vista and there is a problem...

Quote:
Enabling PAE
To enable PAE:

• Locate the Boot.ini file, which is typically in the root folder (for example, C:/) and remove its Read-Only and Hidden attributes.
vista doesnt seem to have a boot.ini file
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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How to Enable More Than 3.5 GB of Memory in 32-Bit Windows Vista · Vista Rewired
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:38 PM   #13 (permalink)
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greg you rock.

I got one ? thought. at the end it says this.
Quote:
“BCDEdit is a boot configuration editor for the command line. Using the above command you’ve just enabled Physical Address Extension (PAE) which can address memory larger than 4 GB. ” -
so does that mean that as long as I only put 4Gb into the laptop that I DON'T need to even do that? or do you tink that is a typo?
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:41 PM   #14 (permalink)
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greg you rock.

I got one ? thought. at the end it says this.

so does that mean that as long as I only put 4Gb into the laptop that I DON'T need to even do that? or do you tink that is a typo?
As far as I know, every Vista user with 4GB of RAM had to do this. Doesn't seem like a difficult process anyways.
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Old 07/17/2007, 02:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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no, it seems easy. just weird the way some of it is worded. like the title even implies that you don't need to do it unless you want over 3.5Gb.

I think I'll go order some more from newegg now and give it a try.
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Old 07/17/2007, 03:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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On a somewhat related news, my campus just began distributing Vista and Office 2007. I just walked into IT Help Central today and told them I quit.
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Old 07/17/2007, 03:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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On a somewhat related news, my campus just began distributing Vista and Office 2007. I just walked into IT Help Central today and told them I quit.
Good call They were trying to switch my lab over and we gave um hell for it, so we're still with XP
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Old 07/18/2007, 08:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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On a somewhat related news, my campus just began distributing Vista and Office 2007. I just walked into IT Help Central today and told them I quit.
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Old 07/18/2007, 09:49 AM   #19 (permalink)
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If you have either 64 bit processor (A64 or EM64) PAE is enabled by default and will allow addressing 4GB of memory address space (notice I didn't say RAM, just memory address space). If you don't have it, you have to force enable PAE and that execute protection feature thingamy to enable 4GB memory address space.

Now that's out of the way -
XP SP2 onwards, no matter what you do, you only see 2GB of available RAM to your applications. That's MSFT's doing, they hard coded the kernel to do that so that users won't run into issues with badly written drivers. PAE enabled systems requires double pointers (or was it double address jumps, I can't remember for sure) to do DMA, but a lot of driver writers cheat and just assumes no one has more than 2GB of RAM and that all the addresses are strictly <2GB.

Vista32
Since the new Vista drivers have to be written from scratch and MSFT actually forces checks on the above issue, they allow more addressable RAM. However, the amount of RAM you will see is affected by how much other types of addressable memory you have in your system. Typical rule of thumb is Total system RAM - total video RAM - PCI address space overhead = Total addressable RAM. So say you have 4GB and you have 2 8800GTX with 768MB each, you will only ever see a MAX of 2.5GB (1.5GB of total video RAM). Sucky eh?

On my system with 4GB of system RAM, I see 2GB in XP and 3.4GB in Vista32.
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Old 07/18/2007, 11:53 AM   #20 (permalink)
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lucky for me the laptop doesn't have a video card.
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Old 07/18/2007, 09:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Umm... What does it use to display then? If it's one of those onboard Intel GMA stuff, then sure, it doesn't take up the memory address, but it eats up real RAM instead
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Old 07/18/2007, 09:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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If you have either 64 bit processor (A64 or EM64) PAE is enabled by default and will allow addressing 4GB of memory address space (notice I didn't say RAM, just memory address space). If you don't have it, you have to force enable PAE and that execute protection feature thingamy to enable 4GB memory address space.

Now that's out of the way -
XP SP2 onwards, no matter what you do, you only see 2GB of available RAM to your applications. That's MSFT's doing, they hard coded the kernel to do that so that users won't run into issues with badly written drivers. PAE enabled systems requires double pointers (or was it double address jumps, I can't remember for sure) to do DMA, but a lot of driver writers cheat and just assumes no one has more than 2GB of RAM and that all the addresses are strictly <2GB.



On my system with 4GB of system RAM, I see 2GB in XP and 3.4GB in Vista32.
i see 3GB of ram in task manager on xp pro sp2
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Old 07/19/2007, 06:24 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Umm... What does it use to display then? If it's one of those onboard Intel GMA stuff, then sure, it doesn't take up the memory address, but it eats up real RAM instead
yes, it uses up to 256Mb of RAM.
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Old 07/19/2007, 06:40 AM   #24 (permalink)
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i see 3GB of ram in task manager on xp pro sp2
Do you see it in the Physical Memory part? - Where are we going, and what's with the handbasket? : Who ate my memory?

If you follow the TechNet article into the driver compatibility section, you'll see this paragraph "To constrain compatibility issues, Windows XP Service Pack 2 includes hardware abstraction layer (HAL) changes that mimic the 32-bit HAL DMA behavior. The altered HAL grants unlimited map registers when the system is running in PAE mode. In addition, the kernel memory manager ignores any physical address above 4 GB. Any system RAM beyond the 4 GB barrier would be made unaddressable by Windows and be unusable in the system. By limiting the address space to 4 GB, devices with 32-bit DMA bus master capability will not see a transaction with an address above the 4 GB barrier. Because these changes remove the need to double-buffer the transactions, they avoid a class of bugs in some drivers related to proper implementation of double buffering support."
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Old 07/19/2007, 07:54 PM   #25 (permalink)
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yes, where it says physical memory, 3143384 K
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Old 07/19/2007, 08:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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At least according to their own docs it should happen. Maybe a new patch release recently changed the implementation.
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Old 07/19/2007, 09:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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from what I've read, you can see over 2Gb on XP too.
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Old 07/19/2007, 11:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
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from what I've read, you can see over 2Gb on XP too.
Up to 3.25GB in most cases.
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