Supercharged 74 Build

[Silvertune]

Here we go. This project has long been going and its time to make my thread. Its a full 6g74 swap into my 00 GT and the SDS supercharger (stage 2 pulley) on forged pistons and supporting mods. The 74 has been completely torn down and I am currently going through all the parts I will be using on the high horsepower build and cleaning them of rust, dirt, etc. Once I have cleaned everything and have all my performance stuff I'll spend a lifetime at the machine shop getting the last bits done. Drop in should be next spring!

10/25 parts list::
SDS shaft/bearing with stage 2 pulley on the V5
Fully ported (1000$ job) heads and manifolds
01 ECU for ECUflashability
NGK step 8 iridium plugs
NGK 8mm wires
ARP main studs
Autometer water temp and oil gauges
Lightweight crankpulley
Walbro 255 high flow pump

Parts that are on the way:
Autometer Fuel pressure gauge
ARP rod bolts
Ripp oil pan fitting
Ripp PCV valve
RPW short tube headers from boostzealot

Parts that I need:
Injectors (I might convert my harness and run VR4 injectors, 400$ for 650s!)
Ross Pistons w/rings(3sx)
HP gasket (IPP)
Toga bearings (IPP)
OEM head gaskets
ZT2 (datalogging)
Autometer Oil temp gauge w/oil adapter for probes and a 3 gauge pod
ARP head studs
High volume fuel loop, fittings w/Fuel lab FPR (3sx)
Fidanza adjustable cam gears and lightweight flywheel
ACT stage 4 (505lb) clutch
Driveshaftshop Stage 3 axles + hubs
Quaife LSD

Due to plan changes I ended up with 2 diamante manifolds and tb's. I have the complete 74 wiring harness and all sensors still on the manifold and tb that came with the engine so I'll finish the ported stuff and do a transfer. I'll do the oil fittings for the supercharger this week too.
My biggest issue right now is what to do about pipes. I have the entire stage 2 SDS kit but I don't want to mess with a GM MAF for blow through but getting/making suck-thru pips for the 74 is going to suck. Ideas welcome. Silicone piping vs hard piping?
Next purchase will be the fuel system stuff. With the AN fittings I can hook it up to the stock lines and call it good. Then buy the last autometer stuff and all I'll have left to get are the big pieces.

[Silvertune]

Pics up.

[Steveodotcom1]

From what I've heard, it's much better to do a suck-threw setup, I'm sure it would be much better to do the suck-threw now rather than dealing with the problems of the blow-threw.

[Silvertune]

Yea I think I'll go suck thru. Repforenzo told me he could run 15 psi easily with his set-up and I'm aiming for 15.

[silverside]

Nice! Good luck. Cant wait to see the finished project.

[Steveodotcom1]

But you know what you should do...

Sell the supercharger, spend half of the money on forged pistons, build the engine, and spend the other half on a bottle with a wet set-up and just go balls to the wall on spray.

[Silvertune]

I bought the kit for 1500 and I can get pistons for 650. I think I'll stick with my gameplan. Really the only thing I'm not getting is a set of rods, but the 72 rods hold 400whp and the 74 rods are bigger with 4 bolt mains...

[Steveodotcom1]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

I bought the kit for 1500 and I can get pistons for 650. I think I'll stick with my gameplan. Really the only thing I'm not getting is a set of rods, but the 72 rods hold 400whp and the 74 rods are bigger with 4 bolt mains...

So you are choosing to enter in to a more complicated and a more expensive, way of forced induction with a stock rebuilt short block to get less power compared to a simple way on a fully forged and rebuilt short block and make more power?

[Tx4Codeman]

Yes Steveo he is choosing permanent power over refills.

[Silvertune]

Yes that permanant power will beat nitrous in the end. And its not a "stock rebuilt" short block. The only stock parts will be the crank, which is forged, and the rods, which are forged. Both of which will go through the machine shop and get polished up and a good magnaflux test. Chances are I may very well end up getting rods too because 3sx has them for only 700$.

Ripp made 423whp with the V5 and the black and brat boxes. With a complete ecuflash on the built 74, I don't see why I can't make more. You would need one hella shot to catch that.

[Steveodotcom1]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

Yes that permanant power will beat nitrous in the end. And its not a "stock rebuilt" short block. The only stock parts will be the crank, which is forged, and the rods, which are forged. Both of which will go through the machine shop and get polished up and a good magnaflux test. Chances are I may very well end up getting rods too because 3sx has them for only 700$.

Ripp made 423whp with the V5 and the black and brat boxes. With a complete ecuflash on the built 74, I don't see why I can't make more. You would need one hella shot to catch that.

You would need a 200 shot, and for that big of a shot two kits and an additional fuel pump for the fuel solenoids would be necessary in some cases. I didn't know Ripp had produced that much power from their sds, but now I see your point.

[Silvertune]

Yea, the specs you see on the website are with stock 72's. The 423whp came out of a built shortblock so they could pull as much boost off that stage 2 pulley as possible.

[Silvertune]

Both oil fittings are on the way, the idiots at ripp overlooked my order for 2 weeks! Idiots! Once I get those I can finish the oiling system. RPW shorties will be here friday, I just bought a straight pipe for 40$ on 3sx. Intake is planned and should start ordering the parts next paycheck...

[tauzins]

question for u... me and cody were wondering.. for the ripps sds the psi is adjusted by what pulley you use? like you cant adjust like a turbo? or what...

[Silvertune]

The pulley you use puts you in a ballpark range. Ripp says the stage 1 pulley is good for 5-7lbs of boost. If you look at repforenzo's thread you'll see he managed to pull 10psi out of the stage one. It depends on whether you are using suck-thru or blowthru. Because our MAF's work better for suck through, you get more boost that way. Ripp's setup is blow-thru, so we gain a couple more PSI over ripp.

[Silvertune]

Been going through my parts and realized that the lightweight crankpulley I have is a smaller diameter then that of the stock crank pulley. Since the SDS belt runs off the crankpulley, I should switch it back to keep my boost up correct?

[OD_MAN99]

Sad day to see you get rid of your kit man.

Good luck

[2000RS-Turbo]

Sense when did he say he was selling it?

[finesse49ers]

Originally Posted by 2000RS-Turbo

Sense when did he say he was selling it?

http://www.club3g.com/forum/automoti...-partouts.html

[d-towngt]

Originally Posted by finesse49ers

http://www.club3g.com/forum/automoti...-partouts.html

Let me know how it turns out that's my next project.

[Silvertune]

()*& &*%^ ^%$*(&^. God damnit. I went with a buddy to dyno his saturn sky redline this week and it put down 300wtq and 275whp. I wouldn't be satisfied with those numbers... so, I'm going to go supercharger again. Seeing that I have the kit I figure why not just put it on if it doesn't sell? If it does sell I can set up an M90 with a stack and twin tb's.

Updates: I picked up a couple of GM 454 tb's (75mm butterfly). I bored them both out so they flow great and am currently machining and attaching IAC housings and a TPS setup. I'll loose only my cruise control for an extra 10mm and I would've lost that anyway. The only issue is connecting it to the manifold: I'll either drill holes in the tb or get a new plate welded on.

I'm going recirc with a 1g BOV on the intake setup and I'll be making a custom dual exhaust! These winter months will be well spent.

[silverside]

[Silvertune]

I'll post some up tomorrow

[Silvertune]

The butterfly size is 75mm but the tb housing opens up to 90. I'll be filling that IAC hold and drilling a smaller one for my custom IAC so it'll flow better. I'm going to finish the polishing and install the IAC tonight along with the TPS from the 72 tb. Once its all cleaned up it'll be ready to go.

[silverside]

For the duel TB's are you going to have them set up so that one remains closed for cursing and light throttle? Or are they both going to be opening at the same time cause that's gonna be difficult around town.

[Silvertune]

Its all theory right now so if it doesn't work out I'll just use the 1 tb for FI and make the other one for my current NA setup just for kicks.

What I'm thinking right now is depending on my boost I could run a reverse spring on the second tb keep it closed until I have boost under WOT. Kind of like the GTS butterfly in the manifold except boost operated instead of computer operated. Since the SDS makes most of its boost up top, I can keep that TB closed with normal driving. If all else fails, Hell I could even run 2 pedals!

[silverside]

Why not set it up like you would duel carbs? where the first one opens to like halfway then the second one starts to open and by 100% throttle they are both open fully. That way when you lightly touch the throttle to take off at a stoplight you don't find yourself going full bore into gramps' buick.

I really like the idea, if you can make it work. I was considering a similar setup for when I put the M90 in.

[Silvertune]

You have got to give me a rundown on that M90 setup. I was planning on running that blower if I could sell my SDS but it seems it won't sell so I'm sticking with it. I had some diagrams for the twin TB setup with the M90 on a stack...

I found a Kia manifold (for the kia version of the DOHC 74 so it fits our manifold) the the runners unbolt from it, I may pick those up friday and I can post some pics. Anyway since the runners unbolt you could easily take just the runners and shorten them up a bunch. With the plenum moved around 3 inches towards the front of the engine you can run 180* U-pipes that meet behind the plenum and connect to the outlet of the M90, hence the stack. That way you'd have 2 big tb's and the coldest air intake system possible...

Thats not a bad I idea. I can run a cable setup between the tb's. I'll have to look into that. I was thinking of using a light weight wastegate spring but that'll provide resistence against the boost so I don't know.

My biggest issue right now is connecting the bigger tb's to the plenum because I can't find anyone who sells a weld-on plate so I may end up making one but I can't find 1/4 inch sheetmetal anywhere.

[PharmEcis]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

but I can't find 1/4 inch sheetmetal anywhere.

google?

[silverside]

^ That's how i found the elbows for my custom water-neck. No one around me carried them.

On the M90, I have one in my basement if you want some measurements off it. Really the hardest part will be the making the manifold so that the belts line up right. If you get that part right then everything else should be easy. Some time this month I will be putting my outlaw spacers on the 75. While I have the manifold off Ill try to get some pictures of it sitting on the engine where Im gonna put it. Im gonna need some work done on the hood so it will close though.

I have some information on the M90 through my searches, Ill pm you when I find it all.

[Silvertune]

google?

I suppose its my last option. I'll think I'll buy 3/8 if I can find it, because thats what the stock plate is for thickness. I have a hard time trusting some of those websites because I've been ripped off before and I hate dealing with the paypal disputes that take a month.

Thats the issue I ran into: fitment. I think you'll end up running a stack no matter what, not that thats a bad thing. It'd look pretty cool and sound pretty sweet as well. I don't know how much you're into machinework, I love just messing around with parts in my little shop; making stuff like my tb IAC hookups, but what might be easiest is finding a manifold from the GM engine that fits the M90 and cut the mounting plate off and bolt that to a manifold connect.

I'm taking a trip out to the junkyard on Friday after school to grab that Kia manifold and possibly its tb (it looked pretty big when I was out there but I didn't have my tape). I'll look through the GM shit to see if there are any M90 cars layin around. The shit from this yard is so cheap I'd probably pick the manifold up too if I found one.

All in all my plan is to have the Kia runners shortened by about 3 inches and weld those the the 74 plenum once I have my TB plates welded on too. From there I can mount the tb's and start messing with that cable setup. I'll probably get a couple of pulleys and use those over the GM cable mounts so I can set the opening ratios. Should be possible.

[silverside]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

I don't know how much you're into machinework, I love just messing around with parts in my little shop; making stuff like my tb IAC hookups, but what might be easiest is finding a manifold from the GM engine that fits the M90 and cut the mounting plate off and bolt that to a manifold connect.

Cuttin up an old manifold was my plan all along, Then its just a matter of welding up everything. I can get a manifold for cheep at crazy rays, hell i can pick up another M90 for like 70 bucks.

I wish I could do the whole machining thing but I don't have the tools myself to do much.

[MattS00]

If you want some M90 eye candy try contacting Rezlo. When he was in the states, he had built an over 500hp Cirrus witha 6g72 and an M90. All of his old pics are gone, but a lot of the info he shared is still around. He made a a plenum that just bolted to the lower intake manifold, mounted the M90 over the rear valve cover, had the TB before the M90, and then ran the output of the M90 to a front mount intercooler. If you can get a hold of him, he may share some of his build pics.

Rezlo.com - Welcome

[MattS00]

Actually I just looked at his web site, and there are three pictures of his build.

[Silvertune]

I'm thinking I may end up running something similar anyway. I'm picking up that Kia manifold for the runners but I may just use a plenum that bolts right down to the lower manifold. I'm also going to look for an M90... What are the boost number with that? With the SDS up front and the plenum out of the way, I could actually run a WRX top mount intercooler over the rear valve cover and run the pipes under it to the twin tbs.

And fml it just got too cold to work outside. Fuck.

[Black_out]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

And fml it just got too cold to work outside. Fuck.

We are sitting at about 12 degrees right now just west of you really. Heated garage FTW!

[silverside]

here is the map for the M90


The amount of pressure is dependent on the size of the crank pulley and the supercharger pulley. Within the limits of the max supercharger speed which somewhere around 14,000 rpm I think.

[Silvertune]

I suppose you could push some decent boost with it then. More then enough to satisfy stock internals. To be honest I'd really love to get rid of my ripp kit and use the M90. Overall it would cost thousands less and I have way more fun making my own stuff then bolting it up The ripp kit should push me 400whp substantially though... Though if I sold the ripp kit I'd get 272 cams on top of the supercharger. Either option works I guess...

I can't wait for tomorrow. I'll get those runners and another plenum and perhaps an M90 manifold. You never know what kind of shit you find out there...

Heated garage!? I wish. I'm asking for a pair of high intensity space heaters this christmas that I can throw in my little shop and keep working like that! Somewhere around 20 is what I heard but they said it feels like 12...

[Black_out]

Yea, they said it felt like 1 out, but 65 degrees in the heated garage rocks!

[Silvertune]

Tell me about it... I'm trying to find a place where I can change my god damn oil. Get some 5w into it for gods sake... I'll never go to a shop after they overfilled me TWO QUARTS and blew my oil seals.

As for Rezlo thats not a bad piece of work. A bit professional looking compared to what my final product would probably be, but hey, all that matters is the speed.

Repforenzo pulled almost 11psi of boost off the Stage 1 pulley on a drawthru setup... My drawthrough and the stage 2 pulley should get me somewhere in the 15psi range. That on a high flowing 3.6... I can't wait.

[Silvertune]

Back from the yard... only thing I got was a chill. Damn bolt stripped on the Kia intake though I did some measuring and the dimensions are the same as the diamante so I guess I'll cut up the diamante manifold.

I found an M90 but someone took just the pulley axle! God damnit. Anyway, you'll have to cut the hood for sure to get that thing in.

[White Knight]

which kia's can that manifold be found on

[silverside]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

I found an M90 but someone took just the pulley axle! God damnit. Anyway, you'll have to cut the hood for sure to get that thing in.

It's a big bitch, Heavy too. but with the way i plan on mounting it all that will be different from stock is the small hump in hood near the windshield.

[Silvertune]

Yea it was really irritating. There were 4 supercharged cars there. 2 had open manifolds where the blower used to be, one had just the housing (wtf?) and then the one I unbolted was missing the front pulley. I figure if I found the front pulley the rest of the blower would be with it so I decided to wait. Though with the SDS I'll reach a good 15psi and maybe put in a TMIC so I'm thinking SDS at this point.

[Silvertune]

It's been awhile so I thought I'd give a little update in lou of my latest purchase:

SDS on the stage 2 pulley; I cleaned the whole kit up and got a blueprint down for my drawthru setup. I'm heading out to Discount Steel in a couple days to pick up some 3" ID stainless piping I'll use with the couplers I already have and I'll be golden. Using a 1g BOV w/recirc.

I mentioned the issue with running the smaller crank pulley but I just solved that. 3sx sells a lightweight pulley that is stock sized. It's on sale right now so I nabbed it.

As for the rest of the intake I've decided to shorten up the runners a bit and put a much larger plenum on based on boostzealots 3.4l surge tank. Up to that I'll have a pair of 74 tb's. Everything's been port and polished and my assembled exhaust is sitting across the basement on a shelf. Lots of progress.

For the fueling issue I'm getting a vortech SFMU and a 3sx high volume fuel loop (also on sale right now). I'm going to convert my harness to 3s clips and run either high impedence 525's but more likely some 550's with resistors because they're so much cheaper.

All in all I'll be able to keep the 15psi with a wonderfully small amount of rotational weight to counter the power needed to make the boost. My only unsatisfied questions right now are the tuning aspects and which differential to use... just some more reading.

I'll post some pics up once I begin work on the manifold.

[MrThaps]

So I take it you're not selling the supercharger any more?

[Silvertune]

Nope, I have my piping on the way. I'm getting a cheap BOV setup from CX racing, its a prewelded pipe with connectors and a knock off recirc BOV. I'm also getting a 3.5" 90 degree elbow for the MAF to blower and I'll run a 3sx filter with MAF flange to that. Currently porting and polishing the runners since I got them off the plenum. I'll be making a tall but short 3.5L plenum box with the shortened runners to I'll only need the bov pipe, it'll be the shortest SC intake system I can make. Stock sized lightweight crank pulley and I may get an even smaller pulley from vortech if I can. Hoping to put 12psi on this bitch.

[MrThaps]

So you're getting this pipe in addition to the piping that came with the sds kit or did you buy the kit after Ripp no longer supplied plumbing/brat box ect? I called them yesterday to order a supercharger kit for mine but they said they quit selling the electronics and plumbing and that they offered it as a "tuner's package" for more flexability. Now I have to make my own FI provisions and was wondering if you are doing the same. I've held off for the moment on the purchase. About those dual throttle bodies, were you going to connect them tandemly or run one on either side of the plenum? And why are you porting if you are going Forced Induction?

[Silvertune]

I bought a complete stage 2 kit so it has all the plumbing and what not. I even got new oil lines and what not. However I desided to do a custom suck-thru setup so I'm screwing ripps piping and making my own. And seriously, if you sent me 2100$ I'd ship the kit to your front door. I have no issues going NA.

Dual throttle bodies would on be on the NA. I'm making a fairly large plenum that would take parellel. Unless someone buys the SDS, I'll use 1 80mm tb. Porting will always get you more power if its done right. In this case, the bigger tb will give me more flow which is what I want.

[MrThaps]

Originally Posted by Silvertune

I bought a complete stage 2 kit so it has all the plumbing and what not. I even got new oil lines and what not. However I desided to do a custom suck-thru setup so I'm screwing ripps piping and making my own. And seriously, if you sent me 2100$ I'd ship the kit to your front door. I have no issues going NA.

Dual throttle bodies would on be on the NA. I'm making a fairly large plenum that would take parellel. Unless someone buys the SDS, I'll use 1 80mm tb. Porting will always get you more power if its done right. In this case, the bigger tb will give me more flow which is what I want.

I agree porting gives you more power, I just figured porting was more for NA since your engine can only breath in the amount able to pass through it's intake and as you said, opening it's intake reduces restriction allowing it to breathe making more power. As for FI, being that the air is forced through the passages pressurizing the entire system allowing the engine to inhale it's demand plus the additional air you force it to take through your boost setup, wouldn't this eliminate the need to port the heads and intake? Sure if you shaved around a 1/4 inch of meat off the sidewalls but with our setups, 1/8" at best right? Only if the bov was purging as the engine was boosting up and the fuel curves where lower than normal for the setup would I worry about porting. Just want to see your buck make the bang man. As for the supercharger, how can we chat off stage? I've never received a message from here.

[MrThaps]

Ok found it, checking my pm's.

[Silvertune]

Update sweet update. My stock sized 3sx lightweight aluminum crank pulley (say that ten times fast) showed up this week. That means I'll get to keep 12psi boost with a stage 2 pulley though with my tax returns I'm going to get rods and the stage 3 pulley. I'll find out just how much boost the V5 can put on 3.6 liters.
Still waiting on the fidanza flywheel from BigJP (skeptical at this point...) and I'm ordering fidanza gears on wednesday.

Steel dealer tomorrow to pick up some piping for my plenum and getting my 90mm tb sometime later this month. Once its all welded I'll have a 4.1l plenum with 90mm tb. Runners are almost done, just finishing up the flange.

Life update: working on an LLC franchise with my buddy. If it goes through I'll have the ability to make some serious cash and build this up with cams and a V2 pushing 25 psi. (And AWD this summer!) Wish me luck!

[Silvertune]

Weighs 1.7lbs as opposed to the stock 8lbs on the 74.

I'm also working on a theoretical M90 build. I'll post pictures of the supercharger plate later this week.

[boostzealot]

if anyone gives you shit for buying that pulley and quotes some crap about how these motors need a harmonic balancer, tell them to take a look at my bearings after 10k and find any discrepancies. you wont. and i repeatedly had that motor about 6500 rpms. oh its because mitsu does a mediocre job of balancing from the factory so the dampner is there to keep it out of harms way. but they tear up after time. the way to go when not using a dampner is to have the entire rotating assembly balanced with that lightweight pulley. then there is no reason for the dampner because the assembly will be internally balanced. cant wait to see more progress on your build. good luck!

[Silvertune]

Thanks boost. Until I got this pulley I was going to use the stock 74 rods but now seeing that 15psi is attainable I'm thinking its time for some real forged business. Its funny the only thing that I haven't fully researched and planned for this car are the slicks I'm going to use!

[Silvertune]

FINALLY!!!!






Behold....

[thahnic1080]

your gonna love that flywheel. I installed mine and you can definitly notice a difference in RPMs

[silverside]

I have it on the 3.8 which uses a ~28 lb stock flywheel. Makes a huge difference.

[Silvertune]

That's good to know. I have a 1.5 lb crank pulley and .5lb cam gears on the way. That shaves a good 26ish lbs off my rotational weight. Hopefully it'll counteract the SDS somewhat.

[Silvertune]

Big day! Eaton M112 supercharger is on its way from Illinois. Shipped frieght cuz its such a big guy but it should be here within a couple weeks.


Also got my fuel lab FPR and put my rails together! Also got all my new insulators, resistors and o Rings, only thing I need now are the injectors. PT 850's comin some time next month! Once I get my lower manifold washed and the rails in I'll post some more pics.