Commentary on John McCain

[Phinhead54]

Editor's Note: Jack Cafferty is the author of the best-seller "It's Getting Ugly Out There: The Frauds, Bunglers, Liars, and Losers Who Are Hurting America." He provides commentary on CNN's "The Situation Room" daily from 4 p.m.-7 p.m. You can also visit Jack's Cafferty File blog.


NEW YORK (CNN) -- Russia invades Georgia and President Bush goes on vacation. Our president has spent one-third of his entire two terms in office either at Camp David, Maryland, or at Crawford, Texas, on vacation.

His time away from the Oval Office included the month leading up to 9/11, when there were signs Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America, and the time Hurricane Katrina destroyed the city of New Orleans.

Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

I think he made a big mistake. When he was invited last spring to attend a discussion of the role of faith in his life with Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, at Messiah College in Pennsylvania, McCain didn't bother to show up. Now I know why.

It occurs to me that John McCain is as intellectually shallow as our current president. When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries. McCain then retold a story we've all heard a hundred times about a guard in Vietnam drawing a cross in the sand.

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?

Throughout the evening, McCain chose to recite portions of his stump speech as answers to the questions he was being asked. Why? He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.

He was asked to define rich. After trying to dodge the question -- his wife is worth a reported $100 million -- he finally said he thought an income of $5 million was rich.

One after another, McCain's answers were shallow, simplistic, and trite. He showed the same intellectual curiosity that George Bush has -- virtually none.

Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.

He no longer allows reporters unfettered access to him aboard the "Straight Talk Express" for a reason. He simply makes too many mistakes. Unless he's reciting talking points or reading from notes or a TelePrompTer, John McCain is lost. He can drop bon mots at a bowling alley or diner -- short glib responses that get a chuckle, but beyond that McCain gets in over his head very quickly.

I am sick and tired of the president of the United States embarrassing me. The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's eyes and see into his soul.

George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure. And the part that troubles me most is he seems content with himself.

He will leave office with the country $10 trillion in debt, fighting two wars, our international reputation in shambles, our government cloaked in secrecy and suspicion that his entire presidency has been a litany of broken laws and promises, our citizens' faith in our own country ripped to shreds. Yet Bush goes bumbling along, grinning and spewing moronic one-liners, as though nobody understands what a colossal failure he has been.

I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him.

Commentary: Is McCain another George W. Bush? - CNN.com

[Vicious]

"George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure"

"I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him."

Yeah umm ok Phinhead

Same thing can be said about Barack oh wait he has no record no experience and has not served in the armed forces. Yep that's a better alternative...

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Vicious

"George Bush's record as a student,military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure"

"I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him."

Yeah umm ok Phinhead

Same thing can be said about Barack oh wait he has no record no experience and has not served in the armed forces. Yep that's a better alternative...

Eh, I don't feel like fueling the fire today. I started to but decided against it.

I'll just

[raz_76]

When time comes I will Vote McCain before Obama.

[mwessinger]

More commentary on John McCain:

No Contest

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, August 18, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Election '08: Last weekend's McCain-Obama protodebate made it clear why Obama won't keep his promise to debate McCain "anywhere, anytime." McCain, with a robust resume and details at his fingertips, won big.

It was only in May that Sen. Barack Obama cockily proclaimed he would debate Sen. John McCain "anywhere, anytime." But in June, Obama said no to McCain's challenge to have 10 one-on-one town hall meetings.

After what happened at Lake Forest, Calif.'s evangelical Saddleback megachurch Saturday evening, we may have found that debating is Obama's Achilles' heel. Whether or not you like the idea of such events being held in religious venues, the plain-and-simple method of questioning used by Saddleback pastor and best-selling author Rick Warren revealed fundamental differences between these two men.

"It's one of those situations where the devil is in the details," Obama said at one point. He could have been referring to his own oratorical shortcomings when a teleprompter is unavailable. We learned a lot more about the real Obama at Saddleback than we will next week as he delivers his acceptance speech in Denver before a massive stadium crowd.

The stark differences between the two came through the most on the question of whether there is evil in the world. Obama spoke of evil within America, "in parents who have viciously abused their children." According to the Democrat, we can't really erase evil in the world because "that is God's task." And we have to "have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil."

For McCain, with a global war on terror raging, there was no equivocating: We must "defeat" evil. If al-Qaida's placing of suicide vests on mentally-disabled women and then blowing them up by remote control in a Baghdad market isn't evil, he asked: "You have to tell me what is."

Asked to name figures he would rely on for advice, Obama gave the stock answer of family members. McCain pointed to Gen. David Petraeus, Iraq's scourge of the surge; Democratic Rep. John Lewis, who "had his skull fractured" by white racists while protesting for civil rights in the 60s; plus Internet entrepreneur Meg Whitman, the innovative former CEO of eBay.

When Warren inquired into changes of mind on big issues, Obama fretted about welfare reform; McCain unashamedly said "drilling" — for reasons of national security and economic need.

On taxes, Obama waxed political: "What I'm trying to do is create a sense of balance and fairness in our tax code." McCain showed an understanding of what drives a free economy: "I don't want to take any money from the rich. I want everybody to get rich. I don't believe in class warfare or redistribution of the wealth."

To any honest observer, the differences between John McCain and Barack Obama have been evident all along. What we saw last weekend was Obama's shallowness juxtaposed with McCain's depth, the product of his extraordinary life experience.

It may not have been a debate, but it was one of the most lopsided political contests in memory. No wonder Obama wants to keep debate formats boring and predictable.

IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- No Contest

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

On a side note, and Phin, I'd be interested to see your opinion on this, I'm tired of how presidential campaigns and ads have turned into chances to bash the opposing candidate instead of a chance to build up one's self. Instead of telling us what the candidate can do for us, they tell us what the other can't do. They've become so negative since the last 3 or 4 elections, it's really disgraceful. Obviously McCain is guilty of this, so I'm not saying this is a Dem tactic like I usually do. I think they're all guilty of it and I hate.

I completely agree with that statement.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

I completely agree with that statement.

Yeah, it really disgusts me, I'd much rather hear what each one has to offer than here what the other one can't offer.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by mwessinger

More commentary on John McCain:

Interesting fact that was failed to mention when talking about McCain's economic policy ... his top advisors are or have been Carly Fiorina, Phil Grahmm and Doug Holtz-Eakin. Do some research on those names.

Keep in mind that

Originally Posted by John McCain

economics is something that I’ve really never understood as well as I should

Also remember, accoriding to John McCain you're not rich until you're making over $5 million a year.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

Also remember, accoriding to John McCain you're not rich until you're making over $5 million a year.

I don't see the problem with that...He also says he wants everyone to be rich. Sounds good to me, if he wants me to have 5 million dollars, I'm fine with that

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

I don't see the problem with that...He also says he wants everyone to be rich. Sounds good to me, if he wants me to have 5 million dollars, I'm fine with that

Lol, now in the spirit of the last few posts, show me how he intends on accomplishing that.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Vicious

"George Bush's record as a student, military man, businessman and leader of the free world is one of constant failure"

"I fear to the depth of my being that John McCain is just like him."

Yeah umm ok Phinhead

Same thing can be said about Barack oh wait he has no record no experience and has not served in the armed forces. Yep that's a better alternative...

Those are not my words, take it up with the author, but McCain has clearly shown that his policy will just continue what Bush has started which in my opinion (these are my words now) this country cannot afford.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by mwessinger

More commentary on John McCain:

Thanks. I needed the laugh.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

Thanks. I needed the laugh.

Yeah, so did we, and we got it from the first post.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Yeah, so did we, and we got it from the first post.

I got my chuckle from McCain continuing to spout off BS statements like al-Qaeda using mentally-disabled females as suicide bombers. It was funny.

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

Those are not my words, take it up with the author, but McCain has clearly shown that his policy will just continue what Bush has started which in my opinion (these are my words now) this country cannot afford.

I know, I know, but you were the one who posted them so that would mean you agree with the statments. That's all I was saying

[Vicious]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

I got my chuckle from McCain continuing to spout off BS statements like al-Qaeda using mentally-disabled females as suicide bombers. It was funny.

LOL, that gave me a chuckle for some strange reason. I got a picture of one blowing itself up prematurely, like right as the guy gets done putting the vest on her.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

I got my chuckle from McCain continuing to spout off BS statements like al-Qaeda using mentally-disabled females as suicide bombers. It was funny.

You don't think that happens? And you don't think that's evil?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Vicious

LOL, that gave me a chuckle for some strange reason. I got a picture of one blowing itself up prematurely, like right as the guy gets done putting the vest on her.

hehehe, I shouldn't laugh at that but I couldn't help it.

[Devin01RT]

Obama voting against the Iraq war from the begenning is enough for me to vote for him, just nullify everything else he has planned.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

Obama voting against the Iraq war from the begenning is enough for me to vote for him, just nullify everything else he has planned.

Fair enough. Strange though, considering you've shown that you don't care about soldiers anyway.

[ZERK]

John McCain is worse than Bush.








Here is an interesting but long read relating to McCain and his republican comrades:

The biggest myth in politics today: "republican fiscal conservatism"

because when you look at the facts, it just isn't so.


here's an interesting article:The Myth of Republican Fiscal Conservatism (The Myth of Republican Fiscal Conservatism | lolife)

The liberal agenda of fiscal conservatism is misunderstood.

Your average person seems to think that, when push comes to shove, matters of business and economy are best handled by Republicans. Even liberal friends of mine sometimes refer to so-called fiscal conservatism as being a trait of the Right. This is a lie. The Right is not more fiscally conservative than the Left. The Republicans also love to talk about cutting taxes. It is a tried and true Republican campaign tactic to say they will cut taxes and their liberal opponent will raise taxes. This is also a lie, although slightly more complex. When people describe themselves as “socially liberal but fiscally conservative”, they are basically saying they are liberals.

Here’s how this fits together.

When we say “fiscally conservative” what do we mean? To most people, it means to manage money carefully, frugally and without a great deal of risk. To play it safe. To focus on necessities and not luxuries. What is the goal of fiscal conservatism? To maximize dollar value. The goal is to make our hard-earned tax dollars go as far as they can.

That is one aspect. But the ideals of the Republican Party don’t stop there. The math is unforgiving: if you take in less tax dollars you can do less. Since you cannot increase efficiency infinitely, a program to reduce taxes is ultimately a program for government to do less. This fits in well with the Republican rhetoric of “smaller government”. So the Republicans aren’t really for fiscal conservatism, they are for a shrinking federal government. Well, what’s wrong with that? Republicans want to grow the military. Big time. They are funding billions and billions into the military. So if we shrink the government but grow the military, it means the military is becoming proportionally an ever more dominant fraction of the federal government. In addition, the real heart of the Republican ideal is keeping the government’s hands off their money. So what they want is the government to be built with someone else’s money to fund a military to protect their wealth. We are becoming a military state controlled by the richest few percent of the population. Shouldn’t that bother us a bit?

There is one thing that everyone can relate to: No one wants to have less money. The goal in this matter, if you will, is to have more money. Yet we know how important government is. It takes a lot of money to have great highways, control our borders, manage our parks, make sure workplaces are safe, make sure food is safe, police the neighborhood, sweeps the streets, protect our country in wartime, interact diplomatically with other countries, provide for social security. This list goes on. This is expensive stuff. This is important stuff. The government does a lot of very, very useful things for all people. Our government does a remarkable job at most of this stuff. Every time it comes down to cutting these programs, Republicans and Democrats alike have a terrible struggle. Republicans love to spend the government’s money, too, and their pet project, the military, spends more money then the next 7 largest militaries in the world. Republicans could accurately be described as “tax-cut and spend”. Why did Ronald Reagan, in a booming economy deficit spend and raise the debt, while President Clinton, in a booming economy, ran a surplus budget and paid down the debt. Ronald Reagan cut taxes and the financial situation of the country got worse. That is not fiscal conservatism. Republicans know they can’t cut taxes and grow the military unless they cut somewhere else. This is where they really screw up. They attempt to take away the very programs that make us a good country and would make us a great country. For example, we need a national solution to health care insurance. No one should ever be turned away from a hospital. In light of the fact that insurance companies are cash cows for their owners, no one should go bankrupt because they suffer from a serious illness. In American we take care of our own. We don’t leave anybody behind. In America, if someone needs a bite to eat, a bed to sleep in or an operation to save their life, we take care of them. We take care of our parks, our roads, our neighborhoods, our workers, our food and our people . There is no person in American who would rather be on welfare than be successful. There is no one at a soup kitchen who wouldn’t rather be in a nice restaurant or in their own kitchen. When people ask for help, we give them help. If you do not, what happens? You have homeless, hungry, dying people, which ends up costing immeasurably more.

True fiscal conservatism does not come with this baggage of needing to shrink government, grow the military and cut social programs. Fiscal conservatism means we should spend money wisely. This means you can’t be penny wise and pound foolish. It is cheaper to have good education programs that prevent crime than to build prisons and incarcerate a huge segment of our population. It is cheaper to protect the environment before it is destroyed than to try to rebuild it once it is destroyed. It is cheaper to develop alternative energy now while we still have fossil fuels, than be scavenging for the last drop when it’s gone at the end of this century. (Please read that sentence again: fossil fuels will be GONE by the end of this century!) America is going to be like a junkie kicking heroin when the oil fields start drying up and the so-called fiscally conservative Republicans are still dragging their feet on alternative energy. It should be a number one priority and instead they want to risk one of the last pristine environments in the world for one more fix of domestic oil.

Issue after issue after issue — the Republican ideals are risky, short-sighted, greedy, expensive and in no way, shape or form fiscally conservative. Here, in a short list, is the essence of fiscal conservatism:

1. Education is the best crime prevention we know of and it is infinitely cheaper than fighting our high crime rate. Fund the crap out of education.
2. Taking care of the environment is going to get exponentially more expensive every decade. Do not pass that nightmare on to your grandchildren. Protect the environment now in a way that will keep it healthy for millenia.
3. Support programs that keep the poorest Americans fed, healthy and with some degree of self-esteem. This is also cheaper than fighting crime and is also the American way.
4. Don’t claim you are patriotic if you don’t support our government financially. A high-quality government costs money. The richest Americans should gladly pay more. They did not get wealthy in a vacuum. They are lucky as hell and they have a civic duty to give back.
5. Insist that our government run a surplus budget. Clinton did, so can Bush. It is immoral to spend the money of future governments today.
6. Do not allow our leaders to turn us into a military state. We do not need a military 100 times bigger than our fellow countries. This is fear and greed in action, it depletes resources that would be better used elsewhere, and supports the ill-conceived notion that might is right. We must solve our problems non-violently when at all possible for many reasons, but one good reason is that it is fiscally conservative.

Conservative vs. Republican

OK, so I just slammed the hell out of Republicans. Please note: I am not slamming Conservatives. I don’t think Republicans and Conservatives are the same thing. Conservatives are generally people who are fiscally conservative. Some of them are also socially conservative. There is a healthy tension between liberals and conservatives on these issues. That’s a good thing. What many good Conservatives don’t see is how the Republican Party is tricking and betraying them. I’ve listed many examples above. The Republican Party is systematically undermining public education, social security, the environment, the health care system and many other things because it is a tactic to achieve an ideological agenda. To be more blunt, they lie because they know if they tell the truth, we won’t buy it. Even good Conservatives would balk at a systematic attack on the health and welfare of the country as a whole. Republicans are deluded into thinking that a liberal agenda is somehow akin to Communism. I won’t shy from that charge: our country is a mix of capitalist and communist tactics. Our military is a communist organization. Our highways are a communist system. Get it out of your head that social cooperation is bad. We all agree: markets should be capitalist. Many, many things work best under capitalism. Not all things. Let’s focus on getting the best for ourselves and our countrymen by spending money wisely so we can continue to be the best country in the world. You are a liberal.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by ZERK

John McCain is worse than Bush.








Here is an interesting but long read relating to McCain and his republican comrades:

I can't watch the vids at work, but I don't totally disagree with that article. (I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the gist of it). Our money was not managed well under this administration.

One thing I will point out is that I come off as a hard core McCain supporter. In reality, I feel McCain is the lesser of two evils. I think it's bad that Obama and McCain are the two best candidates that the major parties could come up with. I just think McCain is farrr better than Obama, that's why I back him so hard. I don't think he's perfect though.

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

I can't watch the vids at work, but I don't totally disagree with that article. (I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the gist of it). Our money was not managed well under this administration.

Our money isn't managed well under ANY republican. True story.

Originally Posted by jhoffner

One thing I will point out is that I come off as a hard core McCain supporter. In reality, I feel McCain is the lesser of two evils. I think it's bad that Obama and McCain are the two best candidates that the major parties could come up with. I just think McCain is farrr better than Obama, that's why I back him so hard. I don't think he's perfect though.

Why is Obama so horrible to you? What makes him the greater of two evils? You don't seem to explain that part.

[Alak]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Fair enough. Strange though, considering you've shown that you don't care about soldiers anyway.

I care for the lives of soldiers, however I don't support them being there or anything they are doing. Their lives are just as valuable to me as any civilian in Iraq, I simply disagree with their actions.

Originally Posted by jhoffner

I can't watch the vids at work, but I don't totally disagree with that article. (I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the gist of it). Our money was not managed well under this administration.

One thing I will point out is that I come off as a hard core McCain supporter. In reality, I feel McCain is the lesser of two evils. I think it's bad that Obama and McCain are the two best candidates that the major parties could come up with. I just think McCain is farrr better than Obama, that's why I back him so hard. I don't think he's perfect though.

I cannot possibly imagine how McCain is the lesser of two evils. McCain will continue the laundry list of grievous illegal actions that Bush has started, while Obama will be SOME amount of change from that path. This country cannot take another Neo-conservative president.

I am a poly sci major and if this country elects a republican after Bush, then i will never vote again.

[morbidjester]

Originally Posted by ZERK

Our money isn't managed well under ANY one. True story.







Why is Obama so horrible to you? What makes him the greater of two evils? You don't seem to explain that part.

I will also vote for McCain when the time comes.

[morbidjester]

Originally Posted by Alak

I care for the lives of soldiers, however I don't support them being there or anything they are doing. Their lives are just as valuable to me as any civilian in Iraq, I simply disagree with their actions.

You don't think we should try to fix what we have messed up?

Originally Posted by Alak

I cannot possibly imagine how McCain is the lesser of two evils. McCain will continue the laundry list of grievous illegal actions that Bush has started, while Obama will be SOME amount of change from that path. This country cannot take another Neo-conservative president.

I am a poly sci major and if this country elects a republican after Bush, then i will never vote again.

What? Whatever, lets just put the celebrity Paris Obama in office for that "some" change.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by morbidjester

You don't think we should try to fix what we have messed up?





What? Whatever, lets just put the celebrity Paris Obama in office for that "some" change.

Are your arms tired from carrying all of that water?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by ZERK

Why is Obama so horrible to you? What makes him the greater of two evils? You don't seem to explain that part.

Read the countless other political threads I've commented in. To sum it up, he has almost no experience and I don't think he's qualified for the position at this point in his career

Originally Posted by Alak

I am a poly sci major

[Devin01RT]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Read the countless other political threads I've commented in. To sum it up, he has almost no experience and I don't think he's qualified for the position at this point in his career

The problem with your reasoning is that experience doesn't outweigh judgement, ever. Judgement always outweighs experience, especially as the president as he will have so many officials and cabinent members informing him of what's going on, and he has to make the judgement call, which he obviously has much more.

Look at the Bush administration, between Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush they collectively probably are one of the most "experienced" groups our country has EVER seen, and look at the mess we are in now...

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

The problem with your reasoning is that experience doesn't outweigh judgement, ever. Judgement always outweighs experience, especially as the president as he will have so many officials and cabinent members informing him of what's going on, and he has to make the judgement call, which he obviously has much more.

Look at the Bush administration, between Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush they collectively probably are one of the most "experienced" groups our country has EVER seen, and look at the mess we are in now...

But experience HEAVILY influences judgment. Typically, the more experience, the better one's judgment.

To the second point, let's face it, 9/11 absolutely changed that presidency. NOONE had experience with anything remotely close to those events. One thing that gets me is that we have no idea what situation we would be in with a Dem in office during 9/11. We could be in the same exact place we are now, we could be better off, we could be worse off. We'll never know. While it's easy to say Bush sucks, do we really know that if someone else were in office we'd be in a better place. Of course you'll say yes, but there's no way for us to really know. And then the effects of 9/11, IMO, have snowballed into what we have now. Do I think we're in a great situation? No. Do I think Obama is the right answer to where we are? No. Do I think McCain will be Bush all over again? Not at all.

If Obama's elected, I hope I'm wrong. I hope he is as great as his followers make him out to be. Right now, I'm just not convinced.

[raz_76]

Originally Posted by Alak

I care for the lives of soldiers, however I don't support them being there or anything they are doing. Their lives are just as valuable to me as any civilian in Iraq, I simply disagree with their actions.

My guess is that you never served in any branch of the military. The president give the order. If you want to be mad at someone, the president is the one to be mad at. The soldiers have no say so where they go or what to attack, they follow orders. There's a thing called insubordination or a deserter if they dont.

Originally Posted by Alak

I am a poly sci major and if this country elects a republican after Bush, then i will never vote again.

You just need to grow up.

[Devin01RT]

So far this past year McCain has voted with Bush on 100% of the issues and from 05-06 he voted with him on 95% of the time. And you don't see him as being the same? Are you serious?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

So far this past year McCain has voted with Bush on 100% of the issues and from 05-06 he voted with him on 95% of the time. And you don't see him as being the same? Are you serious?

Yes. Call me optimistic but I don't think it will be the same. Sure, it'll be similar, but I think things will start to turn around.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

But experience HEAVILY influences judgment. Typically, the more experience, the better one's judgment.

Which is why McCain still calls the North Vietnamese "gooks" to this day.

Originally Posted by jhoffner

To the second point, let's face it, 9/11 absolutely changed that presidency. NOONE had experience with anything remotely close to those events. One thing that gets me is that we have no idea what situation we would be in with a Dem in office during 9/11. We could be in the same exact place we are now, we could be better off, we could be worse off. We'll never know. While it's easy to say Bush sucks, do we really know that if someone else were in office we'd be in a better place. Of course you'll say yes, but there's no way for us to really know. And then the effects of 9/11, IMO, have snowballed into what we have now. Do I think we're in a great situation? No. Do I think Obama is the right answer to where we are? No. Do I think McCain will be Bush all over again? Not at all.

We wouldn't be in Iraq right now if a Dem was in office on 9/11. That's not even an arguable point. Iraq was a neoconservative agenda. There was no snowballing into the current situation. Bush and his cronies wanted to attack Iraq even before 9/11 and they twisted and fabricated the intelligence to make their case for war with Iraq.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

Which is why McCain still calls the North Vietnamese "gooks" to this day.

I'd call them worse things than that if they did to me what they did to him

Originally Posted by Nolelando

We wouldn't be in Iraq right now if a Dem was in office on 9/11. That's not even an arguable point. Iraq was a neoconservative agenda. There was no snowballing into the current situation. Bush and his cronies wanted to attack Iraq even before 9/11 and they twisted and fabricated the intelligence to make their case for war with Iraq.

Yes, you can guarantee that. No, you can't.

I love how this always works. Starts out with a hate article against McCain and a few people talking, and then it always turns into attack the guy who's not a democrat with "Bush sucks, look at his administration," "McCain isn't going to be any better and we're able to predict the future so don't disagree with us!" You don't see us McCain supporters posting every article about Obama (please don't link me to the few threads that I'm sure are out there somewhere). I thought you guys (Dems) were supposed to be the "open-minded," ones . Instead you're the exact opposite of that. You don't even bother to consider that there may be people out there who don't hold the same exact values you do, and you bite their heads off when they show them. I'm done with it.

I'll wait until November, and no matter who's elected, we can see what happens and who was closest to right.

[Devin01RT]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

I'd call them worse things than that if they did to me what they did to him



Yes, you can guarantee that. No, you can't.

I love how this always works. Starts out with a hate article against McCain and a few people talking, and then it always turns into attack the guy who's not a democrat with "Bush sucks, look at his administration," "McCain isn't going to be any better and we're able to predict the future so don't disagree with us!" You don't see us McCain supporters posting every article about Obama (please don't link me to the few threads that I'm sure are out there somewhere). I thought you guys (Dems) were supposed to be the "open-minded," ones . Instead you're the exact opposite of that. You don't even bother to consider that there may be people out there who don't hold the same exact values you do, and you bite their heads off when they show them. I'm done with it.

I'll wait until November, and no matter who's elected, we can see what happens and who was closest to right.

The problem with your argument, saying that the next "guy" is going to be another Bush, is that by going off of his 'record' and 'experience' he is almost identical to the failure we have in the white house now. His policies are identical, he has no solutions or even anything proposed for nearly anything that is on the forefront now, and yet you are still optimistic. That is the problem, not people comparing him to Bush, our biggest failure of a president, ever.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

The problem with your argument, saying that the next "guy" is going to be another Bush, is that by going off of his 'record' and 'experience' he is almost identical to the failure we have in the white house now. His policies are identical, he has no solutions or even anything proposed for nearly anything that is on the forefront now, and yet you are still optimistic. That is the problem, not people comparing him to Bush, our biggest failure of a president, ever.

Believe it or not almighty Devin, not everyone considers Bush a complete failure. Again though, you fail to realize that not everyone agrees with you.

[Devin01RT]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Believe it or not almighty Devin, not everyone considers Bush a complete failure. Again though, you fail to realize that not everyone agrees with you.

You're right, Dick Cheney and the rest of his administration still think he's doing a great job running our country into the ground, Bush's approval rating is at something like 22-23%. I think i'll side with the 77% that do think he is a horrible president.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

You're right, Dick Cheney and the rest of his administration still think he's doing a great job running our country into the ground, Bush's approval rating is at something like 22-23%. I think i'll side with the 77% that do think he is a horrible president.

Right, and 20% of that 77% must not think McCain is going to be exactly like Bush . But, as usual you fall back on your crutch of making every thread about Bush.

Anyhow, since this thread is really about McCain, it appears that almost as many people disagree with you as agree with you. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND DEVIN. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER TRAINS OF THOUGHT OUT THERE. It's unfortunate that these threads always turn into a "gang up on < screen name >" party.

I didn't even pull this from Fox News, so it must be true!

[Devin01RT]

My whole point has to be about Bush.

Try and use some logic here.


Bush is a horrible president by most standards, our country is the worst off it has been in many years.

We have two people running for president.

One of them is very very very similar to Bush and his campaign and cabinent would most likely be very similar as well.

We have a new guy promising new ideas and a fresh approach at our society and wants to reclaim and recapture America as we were in our prime.

Which one would you choose?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

Which one would you choose?

McCain

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Right, and 20% of that 77% must not think McCain is going to be exactly like Bush . But, as usual you fall back on your crutch of making every thread about Bush.

Anyhow, since this thread is really about McCain, it appears that almost as many people disagree with you as agree with you. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. THE WORLD DOESN'T REVOLVE AROUND DEVIN. THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE AND OTHER TRAINS OF THOUGHT OUT THERE. It's unfortunate that these threads always turn into a "gang up on " party.

I didn't even pull this from Fox News, so it must be true!

No, this thread isn't about Bush, it's about how McCain is worse than Bush.


You base your decision solely on experience? What experience does McCain have? If I might ask? Did you see that video I posted? He has little to no foreign experience, all of his experience has come through the military.

Just because you are a senator, doesn't mean you are an experienced diplomat. At least Obama somewhat admits he is unexperienced, rather than hiding behind a facade.

McCain has said he wants to bomb Iran. McCain has said he wants to get into Putin's face and bully him. Are you totally ignorant to the break down in foreign diplomacy over the past 8 years?

McCain is no expert on Economics. McCain is DEFINITELY no expert on domestic issues. McCain is not expert on anything but violence.

I'm not backing Devin, I'm just saying, you talk about McCain being more experienced, but what is he really more experienced at? His tax plans bring more wealth to the rich, and take more money away from the middle class. Under his proposed tax plan he would be saving over 350K in taxes each year. Under his proposed tax plan, the average American would only save something like $300, while under Obama's tax plan the average middle class American would save over $1K.

You talk about experience, when McCain has no more experience than Obama. McCain has just been around longer in congress, and quite frankly I think that makes him much much more corrupt. Before you go blathering on about how McCain wanted to clean up Washington, I think you should realize that that was a different John McCain. You see, the John McCain who realized that, after the 2004 nominations, could not get elected as the "Maverick" completely SHAPED and CHANGED his political ideology. It's ridiculous really, to ignore that republicans have increased the national debt every year by doing nothing but over funding the military and cutting back on areas that matter, like education. When will it get through the thick skulls of republican voters that republicans have not proposed a long term solution to a social problem In decades! Everything is done with a short term solution in mind. Off Shore drilling? Please.

I could go on and on, but it's pretty much worthless, because every McCain worshipper thinks that Obama is the anti-christ.

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by morbidjester

I will also vote for McCain when the time comes.

So you can't read a chart? Or see that the national debt under republican presidents has done nothing put increase exponentially? Are you blind? Or just ignoring the obvious?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

My whole point has to be about Bush.

Try and use some logic here.


Bush is a horrible president by most standards, our country is the worst off it has been in many years.

We have two people running for president.

One of them is very very very similar to Bush and his campaign and cabinent would most likely be very similar as well.

We have a new guy promising new ideas and a fresh approach at our society and wants to reclaim and recapture America as we were in our prime.

Which one would you choose?

Now let me do what you just did, but instead of putting your radical liberal slant on it, I'll put a radical conservative slant on it.

We have two people running for president.

One who was willing to sacrifice his life and serve our country in Vietnam. He has proven his devotion to this great nation, and that is shown by his many naval honors which include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, and the Distinguished Flying Cross. He has been a state senator for over 20 years and a congressman before that.

On the other hand, you have a man who has not served this country a day in his life, has never received an award for his devotion to our country, and may even believe that there are 57 states. His background can be considered somewhat disturbing. On top of all that his major political experience includes less than one full term as state senator.

Who would you vote for?

Now, I didn't do this to point out that Obama hasn't served in the military, etc, I'm doing that simply to show you how easy it is to slant things one way or the other, and that is all you do Devin. You have no interest in learning about other peoples' values or beliefs or even considering them as credible. I no longer have any interest in your opinion or feelings because you have no interest in anyone else's. I will no longer respond to your posts on political issues and I'm ashamed with myself that I've even responded to the ones in this thread.

[morbidjester]

Originally Posted by ZERK

So you can't read a chart? Or see that the national debt under republican presidents has done nothing put increase exponentially? Are you blind? Or just ignoring the obvious?

Can you post up a history time line to go along side that one? You know, to show what was going on in the world at the time of each presidency.

[morbidjester]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

Are your arms tired from carrying all of that water?

Huh? LOL

[morbidjester]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Now let me do what you just did, but instead of putting your radical liberal slant on it, I'll put a radical conservative slant on it.

We have two people running for president.

One who was willing to sacrifice his life and serve our country in Vietnam. He has proven his devotion to this great nation, and that is shown by his many naval honors which include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, and the Distinguished Flying Cross. He has been a state senator for over 20 years and a congressman before that.

On the other hand, you have a man who has not served this country a day in his life, has never received an award for his devotion to our country, and may even believe that there are 57 states. His background can be considered somewhat disturbing. On top of all that his major political experience includes less than one full term as state senator.

Who would you vote for?

Now, I didn't do this to point out that Obama hasn't served in the military, etc, I'm doing that simply to show you how easy it is to slant things one way or the other, and that is all you do Devin. You have no interest in learning about other peoples' values or beliefs or even considering them as credible. I no longer have any interest in your opinion or feelings because you have no interest in anyone else's. I will no longer respond to your posts on political issues and I'm ashamed with myself that I've even responded to the ones in this thread.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by ZERK

I could go on and on, but it's pretty much worthless, because every McCain worshipper thinks that Obama is the anti-christ.

And every Obama worshipper thinks McCain wants to kill everything in sight

I'm just messing with you with that line, Zerk. I actually thought your chart was pretty shocking. Unfortunately for you, my mind is made up at this point, but it's certainly good information.

I do want to restate what I said earlier, but then deleted (but you can see it where Phin quoted me). I wish both candidates would make their tv ads and whatnot more about what they can do, not what the other candidate can't do. I would rather them make me feel like I'm choosing between who's better than who's not as bad. This has gone on for as many elections as I can remember and it always disgusts me. I wish candidates would worry more about their own positives than their competitor's negatives.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Now let me do what you just did, but instead of putting your radical liberal slant on it, I'll put a radical conservative slant on it.

We have two people running for president.

One who was willing to sacrifice his life and serve our country in Vietnam. He has proven his devotion to this great nation, and that is shown by his many naval honors which include the Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, and the Distinguished Flying Cross. He has been a state senator for over 20 years and a congressman before that.

On the other hand, you have a man who has not served this country a day in his life, has never received an award for his devotion to our country, and may even believe that there are 57 states. His background can be considered somewhat disturbing. On top of all that his major political experience includes less than one full term as state senator.

Who would you vote for?

Now, I didn't do this to point out that Obama hasn't served in the military, etc, I'm doing that simply to show you how easy it is to slant things one way or the other, and that is all you do Devin. You have no interest in learning about other peoples' values or beliefs or even considering them as credible. I no longer have any interest in your opinion or feelings because you have no interest in anyone else's. I will no longer respond to your posts on political issues and I'm ashamed with myself that I've even responded to the ones in this thread.

< stir >

All those military awards didn't mean a hill of beans to the Republicans when it was a Democrat who was the one running for president.

< /stir >

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by morbidjester

Can you post up a history time line to go along side that one? You know, to show what was going on in the world at the time of each presidency.

Are you too incompetent to know American history since 1976? I think it's pretty straight forward.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

< stir >

All those military awards didn't mean a hill of beans to the Republicans when it was a Democrat who was the one running for president.

< /stir >

Like I said, I was simply doing that to show how easily things can be slanted

< /spoon pulled out of the pot>

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

And every Obama worshipper thinks McCain wants to kill everything in sight

I'm just messing with you with that line, Zerk. I actually thought your chart was pretty shocking. Unfortunately for you, my mind is made up at this point, but it's certainly good information.

I do want to restate what I said earlier, but then deleted (but you can see it where Phin quoted me). I wish both candidates would make their tv ads and whatnot more about what they can do, not what the other candidate can't do. I would rather them make me feel like I'm choosing between who's better than who's not as bad. This has gone on for as many elections as I can remember and it always disgusts me. I wish candidates would worry more about their own positives than their competitor's negatives.

But yet you ignore the facts? I'm confused. Your mind is made up, no matter what info i spew at you that proves that McCain is not as competent as his "ads" would like you to believe?

Negative campaign ads are going to happen, but it's the citizens job to see past them and realize that, at the core, there is the truth. The truth, about the issues we have talked about is pretty shocking. IMO

That being said, I do disagree with Obama on some key issues, mainly Abortion. But, just as you said, it's all about voting for the lesser of two evils. I just haven't decided whether or not I will vote at all. Because Abortion is THAT important to me.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by ZERK

But yet you ignore the facts? I'm confused. Your mind is made up, no matter what info i spew at you that proves that McCain is not as competent as his "ads" would like you to believe?

Uhhhhhhh, that chart that I said shocked me..yeah..that doesn't include McCain, my friend.

Yes, my mind is made up for this election, but it doesn't mean that that information won't be useful to me in future elections. It'll take a lot because I'm a steadfast Rep. but it's possible.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Uhhhhhhh, that chart that I said shocked me..yeah..that doesn't include McCain, my friend.

But McCain admittedly doesn't understand economics and his top economic advisors have A. Run HP into the ground among other misdeeds, B. have been a paid lobbyest for mortgage companies while crafting policy that would affect them and C. the director of the CBO who created the policies that allowed rampant energy speculation and who has backed off on debt related statements made in office once he got out of office ...

This doesn't even get into McCain making statements on the Russia/Georgia conflict when one of his top foreign policy crafters is a paid lobbyest for the country of Georgia!

His entire campaign is a conflict of interests. He blasts Obama for taking stands on things because he has aspirations to be president ... um, does this mean that McCain is running against his will or something? He's one big walking contradiction.

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

Uhhhhhhh, that chart that I said shocked me..yeah..that doesn't include McCain, my friend.

Soooo, you didn't watch the videos? And you didn't understand the article?

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by ZERK

Soooo, you didn't watch the videos? And you didn't understand the article?

I read the article, and I'm sure I could find articles that directly contradict your article. I'm not going to so don't ask, but I'm sure they're out there. Also, didn't I say before that I don't think McCain is great? Yes, I did, so I don't necessarily agree with him on everything. To me, his involvement in the government for the past 20 some odd years is very powerful. Obama's lack of experience admittedly scares me, but, like you guys are pointing out with McCain's economic ideas, there are things about him that scare me as well. I just feel like he has the experience to fall back on, which to me means alot.

[Phinhead54]

Did you know that Obama was a Constitutional Law professor for 10 years? Think it's important for the President to understand and respect the Constitution?

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

But McCain admittedly doesn't understand economics and his top economic advisors have A. Run HP into the ground among other misdeeds, B. have been a paid lobbyest for mortgage companies while crafting policy that would affect them and C. the director of the CBO who created the policies that allowed rampant energy speculation and who has backed off on debt related statements made in office once he got out of office ...

This doesn't even get into McCain making statements on the Russia/Georgia conflict when one of his top foreign policy crafters is a paid lobbyest for the country of Georgia!

His entire campaign is a conflict of interests. He blasts Obama for taking stands on things because he has aspirations to be president ... um, does this mean that McCain is running against his will or something? He's one big walking contradiction.

Not to mention he shows an utter and complete lack of understanding on what it means to be "middle class." His wife makes millions of dollars, and the McCains own something like 5 houses worth over One million dollars. One of his houses is worth something like 6 million.

He has already said he wants to take on Iran in a bombing conflict. He has already said he wants to "get into Putins' face and put him in his place"

His approach to foreign affairs is based solely on conflict and violence. His approach on the economy is to continue what is already failing. Lord Knows what the national debt will look like after McCain, it could be twice as bad as what Bush has left his successor.

Not to mention the fact that his, proposed secretary of treasury said that Americans were just a bunch of "whiners" when it comes to the issue of foreclosures and a failing economy. ETC.ETC.ETC.ETC....

Yet somehow McCain is a saint because he is a war veteran. I'm sorry, but his past is grounded in violence, and the American Future will be grounded in violence as well, if he is elected. Just because you are a war veteran, doesn't mean you are experienced on foreign diplomacy and foreign affairs!

[MCMike37]

Again, I won't get into the political discussion here, but seriously Phin. You posted that? Funny that an author that wrote a book on "Frauds, Liars, and Losers" would included so many frauds and lies.

Originally Posted by Jack Cafferty

Sen. John McCain takes weekends off and limits his campaign events to one a day. He made an exception for the religious forum on Saturday at Saddleback Church in Southern California.

And where was Obama during the beginning of the Georgia invasion?

When asked what his Christian faith means to him, his answer was a one-liner. "It means I'm saved and forgiven." Great scholars have wrestled with the meaning of faith for centuries.

Do you want your leader telling you the meaning of faith?

Asked about his greatest moral failure, he cited his first marriage, which ended in divorce. While saying it was his greatest moral failing, he offered nothing in the way of explanation. Why not?

Does anyone need an explanation on that one? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

He has lived 71 years. Surely he has some thoughts on what it all means that go beyond canned answers culled from the same speech he delivers every day.

So this guy wants someone that changes his answers and views day to day?

He was asked "if evil exists." His response was to repeat for the umpteenth time that Osama bin Laden is a bad man and he will pursue him to "the gates of hell." That was it.

'Nuff said. I wouldn't to decree publicly how you plan to catch the bad guy.

Where are John McCain's writings exploring the vexing moral issues of our time? Where are his position papers setting forth his careful consideration of foreign policy, the welfare state, education, America's moral responsibility in the world, etc., etc., etc.?

And how many of the "average American" would read any of that? The best way to get your beliefs to the "common man and woman" is with simple answers in the media and in person.

John McCain graduated 894th in a class of 899 at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. His father and grandfather were four star admirals in the Navy. Some have suggested that might have played a role in McCain being admitted. His academic record was awful. And it shows over and over again whenever McCain is called upon to think on his feet.

Of course with two generations of admirals in his family he got a nod. Many students that go to the academy have that. Take #899 of #899 from the Naval Academy, or any service academy and they would outperform 95% of students in "regular" universities.

The world we live in is too complex to entrust it to someone else whose idea of intellectual curiosity and grasp of foreign policy issues is to tell us he can look into Vladimir Putin's eyes and see into his soul.

This guy is honestly saying that McCain has no grasp on foreign policy issues? Wow, just wow.

And it just goes to show...

Originally Posted by MCMike37

...it's just so often that what is reported in the national news media is so far from the actual truth it's almost ludicrous, it's made to fit the agenda of that particular station and their executives.

[ZERK]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

I read the article, and I'm sure I could find articles that directly contradict your article. I'm not going to so don't ask, but I'm sure they're out there. Also, didn't I say before that I don't think McCain is great? Yes, I did, so I don't necessarily agree with him on everything. To me, his involvement in the government for the past 20 some odd years is very powerful. Obama's lack of experience admittedly scares me, but, like you guys are pointing out with McCain's economic ideas, there are things about him that scare me as well. I just feel like he has the experience to fall back on, which to me means alot.

Go ahead, try to find an article that contradicts the FACT that under republican administrations,

1.) The math is unforgiving: if you take in less tax dollars you can do less. Since you cannot increase efficiency infinitely, a program to reduce taxes is ultimately a program for government to do less. This fits in well with the Republican rhetoric of “smaller government”. So the Republicans aren’t really for fiscal conservatism, they are for a shrinking federal government. 2.)Republicans want to grow the military. Big time. They are funding billions and billions into the military. So if we shrink the government but grow the military, it means the military is becoming proportionally an ever more dominant fraction of the federal government.

3.)In addition, the real heart of the Republican ideal is keeping the government’s hands off their money. So what they want is the government to be built with someone else’s money to fund a military to protect their wealth. We are becoming a military state controlled by the richest few percent of the population. Shouldn’t that bother us a bit?

4.)Republicans love to spend the government’s money, too, and their pet project, the military, spends more money then the next 7 largest militaries in the world.

5.) Go find an article that PROVES that republicans cut taxes in areas like education and health care and move that money to the military

You do that and I will ship you a box of girl scout cookies. I think you are going to have a hard time though.