McCain campaign tries to play the gender card ...

[Phinhead54]

'Lipstick on a pig': Attack on Palin or common line? - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Sen. Barack Obama's reference to "lipstick on a pig" has Republicans demanding an apology and Democrats accusing Sen. John McCain of a "pathetic attempt" to play the gender card.


Barack Obama used the "lipstick" line at a campaign event in Lebanon, Virginia, on Tuesday.

McCain's campaign said Obama's remarks were offensive and a slap at Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin -- despite the fact that the Arizona senator himself used the phrase last year to describe a policy proposal of Hillary Clinton's.

Obama's campaign responded by saying McCain was running a "dishonorable campaign."

Obama made the remarks at a Virginia campaign stop late Tuesday afternoon.

"John McCain says he's about change too, and so I guess his whole angle is, 'Watch out George Bush -- except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics -- we're really going to shake things up in Washington,'" he said.

"That's not change. That's just calling something the same thing something different. You know you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig. You know you can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, it's still going to stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing." Watch how tensions are rising on the trail »

The crowd erupted in applause when Obama delivered the line.

The Illinois senator then praised both McCain's "compelling story" and Palin's "interesting story," and said his "hat goes off" to anyone who's looking after five kids -- "I've got two and they tire Michelle and me out. ...

"That's why John McCain's campaign manager [Rick Davis] said this campaign isn't going to be about issues, this campaign is going to be about personalities."

Within minutes, the McCain campaign announced a conference call focused on the remark, which they said was a deliberate reference to Palin's line: "You know the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick."

Palin used the line in the opening remarks of her convention speech, and she frequently uses it on the campaign trail.

In Iowa last October, McCain drew comparisons between Hillary Clinton's current health care plan and the one she championed in 1993: "I think they put some lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig." He used roughly the same line in May, after effectively claiming the Republican nomination.

McCain spokesman Brian Rogers told CNN the campaign saw a "big difference" between the two references: "McCain was referring to a policy proposal. Obama was referring to [Alaska] Gov. Sarah Palin. It's obviously disrespectful and offensive. ...

"Who has been talking about lipstick lately? It was obvious. The crowd went crazy because of it."

It wasn't the first time Obama used the line. In a phone interview with The Washington Post last September, he used it in reference to the situation in Iraq.

"I think that both Gen. [David] Petraeus and Ambassador [Ryan] Crocker are capable people who have been given an impossible assignment," Obama told the Post. "George Bush has given a mission to Gen. Petraeus, and he has done his best to try to figure out how to put lipstick on a pig."

Other politicians have also used the phrase in recent years, including Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. Maria Cantwell of Washington state, Sen. James Inhofe of Oklahoma, Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, Rep. John Mica of Florida and Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado, among others.

Torie Clarke, a former McCain adviser, even wrote a book called, "Lipstick on a Pig: Winning In the No-Spin Era by Someone Who Knows the Game."

Still, the McCain campaign says Obama's use was intentional, and they want an apology.

"Barack Obama's comments today are offensive and disgraceful. He owes Gov. Palin an apology," said Maria Comella, a McCain-Palin spokeswoman.

Obama's campaign said "enough is enough" and accused McCain of running a "dishonorable campaign."

"The McCain campaign's attack tonight is a pathetic attempt to play the gender card about the use of a common analogy -- the same analogy that Sen. McCain himself used about Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan just last year," said Obama campaign senior adviser Anita Dunn. "This phony lecture on gender sensitivity is the height of cynicism and lays bare the increasingly dishonorable campaign John McCain has chosen to run."

McCain ally Mike Huckabee took Obama's side on the issue, saying he didn't think it was a swipe at Palin.

"It's an old expression, and I'm going to have to cut Obama some slack on that one. I do not think he was referring to Sarah Palin; he didn't reference her. If you take the two sound bites together, it may sound like it," he said on Fox's "Hannity and Colmes."


"But I've been a guy at the podium many times, and you say something that's maybe a part of an old joke and then somebody ties it in. So, I'm going to have to cut him slack."

But McCain's campaign is not about to let the issue go. They released a Web ad Wednesday that plays Obama's lipstick comments, then asks, "Ready to lead? No. Ready to smear? Yes."

[kabob]

What a bunch of crap. It's obvious that he was referring to McCain/Palin's policies and rhetoric in their most recent campaigning when referencing the idiom "putting lipstick on a pig." But, yay, the spin machines are in full swing heading into the elections, I guess.

[HIJACKER]

Originally Posted by Obama

You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change, but it's still going to stink after eight years.

[Jeremy]

Fucking hypocritical bullshit.

[Bro'Man]

I'm really ready for the voting to be over and done with.

[pp_e]

Originally Posted by Bro'Man

I'm really ready for the voting to be over and done with.

agreed

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by pp_e

agreed

And I think this attempt to use the gender card by the McCain camp is really pathetic. It's obvious what Obama was referring to.

[Nolelando]

This coming from the guy who called his wife a cunt and told the Chelsea Clinton joke? Really?

[Elizabeth]

Really. It's how he rolls!

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Really. It's how he rolls!

Somebody owes the pig an apology is all I'm saying.

[WanderingPinoy]

It is too bad that the campaigns are so damn focused on discrediting the other party rather that working on exactly how to fix our problems.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by WanderingPinoy

It is too bad that the campaigns are so damn focused on discrediting the other party rather that working on exactly how to fix our problems.

It's going to come down to the so-called "values" voters and the morons who are voting for who they'd rather have a beer with. Again.

[HIJACKER]

On a sidenote - it took me damn near 2 hours to get to the office today because of the traffic around Fairfax City where McCain and Palin were going to be at.

[pp_e]

Democratic Congressman Russ Carnahan on Tuesday — introducing Joe Biden at a campaign event — ripped into Palin’s record and punctuated it with this snarky jab. “There’s no way you can dress up that record, even with a lot of lipstick,” he said. Later in the day, Obama used a variation of the lipstick line, though he was clearly talking about the McCain-Palin reform rhetoric. "You can put lipstick on a pig," he said. "It's still a pig."

Obama, Dems sharpen personal attacks on Palin - Jim VandeHei and Mike Allen - Politico.com

just for shits and giggles....what if it was a move by the Obama camp? then what?

[Jeremy]

Dressing up, the original term, comes from a woman putting on a dress for her husband. It was initially a misogynistic bullshit remark. It was later revised into a popular phrase, "You can't dress up *act or person in question*. If you put lipstick on a *noun* it doesn't make it any less *synonym for bad*.

It's a lousy phrase to begin with. It always has been. With that said, it's EXTREMELY popular. I probably hear it once a month from assorted people. Whether Obama or McCain said it, I'd take it the same way. "No matter how you spin (alter, enhance, exaggerate, manipulate) something, it's still something."

Now, with that said, I DO think Palin is a pig. As is McCain (see remarks about his wife). I don't care if they wear lipstick or not.

If it was a move by the Obama camp to exaggerate the event, I'd laugh almost as heartily. The only reason why I laugh MORE at the Republicans for exaggerating this is because I generally see them as ahem, less informed(?). Exaggerating something as asinine as an obvious popular phrase in a coincidental situation is stupid no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

[Special_K]

I really think that the Democrats have a lot better speaches this year than the Republicans. Obama and now Biden really can light up a crowd even if it is with Political Bull Shit.

You can put lipstick on club3g, but in the end its still club3g.

[rocketbass88]

Originally Posted by kabob

What a bunch of crap. It's obvious that he was referring to McCain/Palin's policies and rhetoric in their most recent campaigning when referencing the idiom "putting lipstick on a pig." But, yay, the spin machines are in full swing heading into the elections, I guess.

I'm a McCain supporter and I still agree whole-heartedly.

[rocketbass88]

Originally Posted by HIJACKER

On a sidenote - it took me damn near 2 hours to get to the office today because of the traffic around Fairfax City where McCain and Palin were going to be at.

So glad I'm out of VA... haha.

[LUNAR]

Well this is the kind of crap that the McCain campaign is going to try and use to get voters to sway away from Obama. I said it before and I will say it again. I lost all respect for him when I found out who he picked for his VP. It was clearly a political strategic move on his part. He knew he was losing ground and he knew he had to do something to shake things up a bit. Well it seems that he did.

[Cuse]

No talk of Biden's screw up asking a Senator in a wheelchair to stand up and let the crowd see him? Proved that he knew nothing about the senator he was about to praise, but whatever.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Cuse

No talk of Biden's screw up asking a Senator in a wheelchair to stand up and let the crowd see him? Proved that he knew nothing about the senator he was about to praise, but whatever.

There is a huge difference between Joe Biden's "gaffe" and the McCain/Palin constant lies and slimey twisting of the truth.

There you go, being that typical liberal basher...trying to grasp at straws.

Hot Air Blog Archive Biden’s Stevie Wonder moment

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

There is a huge difference between Joe Biden's "gaffe" and the McCain/Palin constant lies and slimey twisting of the truth.

There you go, being that typical liberal basher...trying to grasp at straws.

Hot Air Blog Archive Biden’s Stevie Wonder moment

Are you not a conservative basher then? You call me a liberal basher as you say I am searching for reasons to not like emperor obama, are you not doing the same? I have not tried to hide that I don't like the liberal philosophies. This place though, is full of liberal lovers who gladly drink whatever the moonbats are throwing out there. Color me the lone libertarian in the lounge if you will.

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Cuse

Are you not a conservative basher then? You call me a liberal basher as you say I am searching for reasons to not like emperor obama, are you not doing the same? I have not tried to hide that I don't like the liberal philosophies. This place though, is full of liberal lovers who gladly drink whatever the moonbats are throwing out there. Color me the lone libertarian in the lounge if you will.

I'm curious, but why do you call him emperor? It seems to me that the republican party is responsible for garrisoning more foreign countries in the last 8 years than since the cold war.

[LUNAR]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

I'm curious, but why do you call him emperor? It seems to me that the republican party is responsible for garrisoning more foreign countries in the last 8 years than since the cold war.

Oh so they're calling him EMPEROR Obama now?

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by LUNAR

Oh so they're calling him EMPEROR Obama now?

You didn't see him in the coloseum, in front of the columns, preaching about how he is going to change our lives and how good it will be for us? Julius Caesarish?

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by Cuse

You didn't see him in the coloseum, in front of the columns, preaching about how he is going to change our lives and how good it will be for us? Julius Caesarish?

From Dubya's acceptance speech in 2004:



What's that behind him? Let's zoom in for a closer look, shall we?


































COLUMNSZ!!!!!1! OH NOEZ!!!!!

[Devin01RT]

Originally Posted by WanderingPinoy

It is too bad that the campaigns are so damn focused on discrediting the other party rather that working on exactly how to fix our problems.

Actually, Obama's entire campaign has been on directing towards our County's issues, except that he is continually having to defend himself against the Republican machine smear tactics.

We are going to cave in ourselves under a McCain presidency.. 4 more years of horrible foreign relations, terrible economy, rising deficit, as well no plan for the future is not something i'm going to vote for.

[Elizabeth]

Again, grasping at straws!



Gee, his backdrop at the DNC couldn't have possibly been meant to signify the fucking white house....

By day it harkens back to the temples of ancient Greece, the birthplace of democracy, with columns made of plywood painted off-white.

Illuminated at night, the stage evokes the White House......

Barack Obama's Invesco stage is Greek temple by day, White House by night

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Again, grasping at straws!



Gee, his backdrop at te DNC couldn't have possibly been meant to signify the fucking white house....


Barack Obama's Invesco stage is Greek temple by day, White House by night

You fail at hotlinking.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

COLUMNSZ!!!!!1! OH NOEZ!!!!!

You're right. I forgot that Bush did that in an open air stadium in front of 80,000 people after changing the venue and that Obama is the current President................Oh wait......

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Cuse

You didn't see him in the coloseum, in front of the columns, preaching about how he is going to change our lives and how good it will be for us? Julius Caesarish?

I don't think you understand what emperor means if you think standing in front of pillars makes you an empire builder. Until recently, McCain did not support a timeline for pulling out of Iraq. He's made it very clear that he supports adding new bases in Poland, that he wants to kick Russia out of the G8. It seems to me that rather than relinquishing our role as a pseudo empire and policeman of the world, McCain wants to go in the opposite direction.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Cuse

You're right. I forgot that Bush did that in an open air stadium in front of 80,000 people after changing the venue and that Obama is the current President................Oh wait......

The fact that you're nitpicking over the backdrop of a speech in a venue that he sold out ... well, shows you have nothing else to really attack.

How about McCain's backdrop ... it was kind of a biggish structure, people thought it was one of his however many houses he has, but no! After some research we find out it's Walter Reed Middle School in California, what does that have to do with McCain? No one really knows. Maybe they wanted Walter Reed Medical Center, but why? McCain consistently votes against Veteran benefits and he himself was never in Walter Reed. McCain staff replies "it was just stock photography, nothing special." So, ultimately, it doesn't freakin' matter what the backdrop was, if you have to focus on that then wow, just wow.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Nolelando

You fail at hotlinking.

As you were trying to be so damn witty I fixed my post so STFU, noob.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

The fact that you're nitpicking over the backdrop of a speech in a venue that he sold out ... well, shows you have nothing else to really attack.

How about McCain's backdrop ... it was kind of a biggish structure, people thought it was one of his however many houses he has, but no! After some research we find out it's Walter Reed Middle School in California, what does that have to do with McCain? No one really knows. Maybe they wanted Walter Reed Medical Center, but why? McCain consistently votes against Veteran benefits and he himself was never in Walter Reed. McCain staff replies "it was just stock photography, nothing special." So, ultimately, it doesn't freakin' matter what the backdrop was, if you have to focus on that then wow, just wow.

Let's not even talk about the fantastic, graphic 9/11 "tribute" that took place at the RNC......

[Cuse]

I'm the one nitpicking? There are how many threads on here nitpicking little things said by McCain or Palin or talkiing about how she is a hunter or won't go on "meet the press". McCain's houses, etc. That is all nitpicky shit. Give me a break. Most of the things people post in here are nitpicky.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Let's not even talk about the fantastic, graphic 9/11 "tribute" that took place at the RNC......

Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out what the hell that had to do with the 2008 presidential election.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Cuse

I'm the one nitpicking? There are how many threads on here nitpicking little things said by McCain or Palin or talkiing about how she is a hunter or won't go on "meet the press". McCain's houses, etc. That is all nitpicky shit. Give me a break. Most of the things people post in here are nitpicky.

Issues vs. Scenery ... yeah, I see the connection.

[Cuse]

I don't like Obama and I don't trust him. But that doesn't matter to the majority on here because my opinion as you all say is because I am misinformed.

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by Cuse

You're right. I forgot that Bush did that in an open air stadium in front of 80,000 people after changing the venue and that Obama is the current President................Oh wait......

You didn't say anything about president. You said emperor. But, fair enough. I will give you that one. He is not yet president and should not be standing in front of any columns, looking all president like....

Wait! What's that in front of the US Capitol, the place where Barrack Obama is currently working in the US Senate as the junior senator from Illinois?!?! Couldn't be! Dear. God. No.
















Who the fuck does Obama think he is? Disgusting.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

Issues vs. Scenery ... yeah, I see the connection.

Exactly what issues are we talking about when we ask why McCain didn't answer the "how many houses do you own question"?

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by Cuse

Exactly what issues are we talking about when we ask why McCain didn't answer the "how many houses do you own question"?

And what are the issues McCain is talking about when the economy is in the crapper, we're fighting two wars, gas prices are through the roof, and 47 million people in this country are living without any health care?

Lipstick.

[Devin01RT]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Let's not even talk about the fantastic, graphic 9/11 "tribute" that took place at the RNC......

The Republicans love fear tactics, they're good as confusing the nation and turning the mindless sheep into voting for them, you know, because if a Democrat is elected then it could happen!

It was fucking disgraceful though, I was sick after seeing that. Fuck Republicans. Fuck the RNC, Fuck the GOP, Fuck George Bush, Fuck McCain, Fuck Cheney and the rest of the Cabinent members, Fuck Palin, fuck anyone that is too dull, ignorant, stupid and uneducated to see the truth that right in front of their face and would rather focus on illegitimate bullshit, drama associated crap that only regresses our country into retardation. Fuck anyone that wants to keep our country going in the same direction.

[Cuse]

That was a direct question about what issues we are discussing with the "how many houses do you own" that was a topic on here. I said, there is a pile of nitpicking going on here, I was replied to that scenery vs. issues is the problem and I am nitpicking on scenery and the Obama lovers are nitpicking on the issues. So once again, I ask the question, what issues are we discussing with the "how many houses do you own" question?

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

The Republicans love fear tactics, they're good as confusing the nation and turning the mindless sheep into voting for them, you know, because if a Democrat is elected then it could happen!

It was fucking disgraceful though, I was sick after seeing that. Fuck Republicans. Fuck the RNC, Fuck the GOP, Fuck George Bush, Fuck McCain, Fuck Cheney and the rest of the Cabinent members, Fuck Palin, fuck anyone that is too dull, ignorant, stupid and uneducated to see the truth that right in front of their face and would rather focus on illegitimate bullshit, drama associated crap that only regresses our country into retardation. Fuck anyone that wants to keep our country going in the same direction.

Damn you Devin, you always give me no choice.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Cuse

That was a direct question about what issues we are discussing with the "how many houses do you own" that was a topic on here. I said, there is a pile of nitpicking going on here, I was replied to that scenery vs. issues is the problem and I am nitpicking on scenery and the Obama lovers are nitpicking on the issues. So once again, I ask the question, what issues are we discussing with the "how many houses do you own" question?

It has a direct relation to the economy and how he cannot even fathom what middle America is going through. I believe that situation took place shortly after he said our economy was fundamentally strong. It just shows how out of touch he is with America and our issues.

[Cuse]

That Devin is such a polite, well manuered individual.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Cuse

That Devin is such a polite, well manuered, banned individual.

Fixed.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

It has a direct relation to the economy and how he cannot even fathom what middle America is going through. I believe that situation took place shortly after he said our economy was fundamentally strong. It just shows how out of touch he is with America and our issues.

Wait a second, Obama does not understand middle america either. He doesn't know today's money problems. He made what, like 1.5 million last year?

I don't think that question was meant to ask him about the eceonomy, it was done by the media to paint McCain as the rich white man and Obama as the poor black man. Not saying the technique wasn't effective, but hey.

On another note, this nitpicking even on the issues doesn't seem to be working. The recent polls have shown that people are put off by the attacks on Palin.

[Cuse]

And I believe that the fundamentals of our eceonomy are strong. The dollar has strenghtened, oil is receding, The Dow is hanging on when many thought it was going to fall apart........there is still significant data that points to our economies foundation being strong.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by Devin01RT

The Republicans love fear tactics, they're good as confusing the nation and turning the mindless sheep into voting for them, you know, because if a Democrat is elected then it could happen!

It was fucking disgraceful though, I was sick after seeing that. Fuck Republicans. Fuck the RNC, Fuck the GOP, Fuck George Bush, Fuck McCain, Fuck Cheney and the rest of the Cabinent members, Fuck Palin, fuck anyone that is too dull, ignorant, stupid and uneducated to see the truth that right in front of their face and would rather focus on illegitimate bullshit, drama associated crap that only regresses our country into retardation. Fuck anyone that wants to keep our country going in the same direction.

You do your party proud

[Nolelando]

Originally Posted by jhoffner

You do your party proud

Well, his heart is in the right place.

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Cuse

And I believe that the fundamentals of our eceonomy are strong. The dollar has strenghtened, oil is receding, The Dow is hanging on when many thought it was going to fall apart........there is still significant data that points to our economies foundation being strong.

The dollar has strengthened more because the global economy is faltering and investors are once again putting their money on the dollar, partly due to the communists in the government nationalizing freddie mac and fannie mae. Lehman brothers, another major investment bank looks like it's on a downward slope to ruin. I don't think the economy is doing peachy at all.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

The dollar has strengthened more because the global economy is faltering and investors are once again putting their money on the dollar, partly due to the communists in the government nationalizing freddie mac and fannie mae. Lehman brothers, another major investment bank looks like it's on a downward slope to ruin. I don't think the economy is doing peachy at all.

I'm sorry, communists in the government taking over Fannie and Freddie? Are you kidding? This step is necessary and essential to our markets. Without Fannie and Freddie in business, 50% of our mortgage availability would probably be gone. That translates to a further downturn in the price of homes, scarcity of mortgage funds (more so than now) and mortgage rate increases/rates we saw over 20 years ago. Mortgages at 14-18% would not be good for the housing market, our economy, etc. What you call communist takeover I call a necessary step to insure that our consumer purchases of homes don't come under the opinion/cost of a foreign government when an overseas company buys one or many of our struggling banks.

[Jeremy]

Communists? Oy veh.

[pp_e]

Originally Posted by Cuse

Wait a second, Obama does not understand middle america either. He doesn't know today's money problems. He made what, like 1.5 million last year?

I don't think that question was meant to ask him about the eceonomy, it was done by the media to paint McCain as the rich white man and Obama as the poor black man. Not saying the technique wasn't effective, but hey.

On another note, this nitpicking even on the issues doesn't seem to be working. The recent polls have shown that people are put off by the attacks on Palin.

honestly....he does understand what middle america is going thru. thats what he is relying on to get him office. Tax the rich, feed the poor. Socialism at its best?? promise the little guy that he will get more to "even" things out a little bit. But honestly....its not the governments job to do that.

im not even close to the top 5% of america and i dont think thats fair. If i want to be equal to the top 5% in america i will work my ass off to try and earn my way. hand outs only create lazyness and entitlement.

[jhoffner]

Originally Posted by pp_e

honestly....he does understand what middle america is going thru. thats what he is relying on to get him office. Tax the rich, feed the poor. Socialism at its best?? promise the little guy that he will get more to "even" things out a little bit. But honestly....its not the governments job to do that.

im not even close to the top 5% of america and i dont think thats fair. If i want to be equal to the top 5% in america i will work my ass off to try and earn my way. hand outs only create lazyness and entitlement.

that's one thing I absolutely love about McCain. He wants to cut back on govt hand outs.

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Cuse

I'm sorry, communists in the government taking over Fannie and Freddie? Are you kidding? This step is necessary and essential to our markets. Without Fannie and Freddie in business, 50% of our mortgage availability would probably be gone. That translates to a further downturn in the price of homes, scarcity of mortgage funds (more so than now) and mortgage rate increases/rates we saw over 20 years ago. Mortgages at 14-18% would not be good for the housing market, our economy, etc. What you call communist takeover I call a necessary step to insure that our consumer purchases of homes don't come under the opinion/cost of a foreign government when an overseas company buys one or many of our struggling banks.

Other market forces would step in by the void left by these two companies. That's capitalism at work. I wonder why we have to foot the bill for irresponsible investors who make a killing by being reckless and then don't lose anything because the government is there to catch them when they lose all our money.

Yes, it might be harder to get a loan in the near future but the market will all stabilize out. Nationalizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac does not sit well with me. It's 2 steps removed from having government sponsored housing which I don't like at all. It smacks of pretty strong leaning socialism for me. The only reason why Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are as big as they today is because the government was supporting them when they were giving handouts to people who didn't deserve to be anywhere near a loan.

Although, to be honest, I'm not a complete libertarian/conservative, what-have-you on economics, I do support some sort of nationalization of health insurance/medical care. Everyone deserves access to medical treatment, not everyone deserves a house.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

Other market forces would step in by the void left by these two companies. That's capitalism at work. I wonder why we have to foot the bill for irresponsible investors who make a killing by being reckless and then don't lose anything because the government is there to catch them when they lose all our money.

Yes, it might be harder to get a loan in the near future but the market will all stabilize out. Nationalizing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac does not sit well with me. It's 2 steps removed from having government sponsored housing which I don't like at all. It smacks of pretty strong leaning socialism for me. The only reason why Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are as big as they today is because the government was supporting them when they were giving handouts to people who didn't deserve to be anywhere near a loan.

Although, to be honest, I'm not a complete libertarian/conservative, what-have-you on economics, I do support some sort of nationalization of health insurance/medical care. Everyone deserves access to medical treatment, not everyone deserves a house.

Actually, before this bailout I don't think any federal money went to either of those entities. I have not confirmed that, but it is what I have heard.

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

Actually, before this bailout I don't think any federal money went to either of those entities. I have not confirmed that, but it is what I have heard.

I dont' think so either, but it was generally understood that taxpayer money was backing the fannae mae and freddie mac, meaning investors were more likely to engage in riskier deals then they would have if they didn't have a backup

[Cuse]

The government never gave handouts to Fannie and Freddie. As a matter of fact, the government actually asked Fannie and Freddie to loosen their requirements to make home purchase/ownership more available for everyone, that was many moons ago though. Fannie finally complied with this request and offered these loan programs. Fannie and Freddie have a hand in 50% of the mortgage market by direct funding of these loans or insuring these loans. How long do you think it would take "capitalism" to stabilize the market if half of it was gone? What would happen to your loan if your bank no longer insurance on the money? Half the supply going away is not a problem that will be solved by stabilization............it would take far too long for that to happen. Please research all the loans guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie at the request of the government for "FHA" and "VHA" loans. These were the original special loan programs Fannie and Freddie backed at the request of the government. All the new loans in the past 10 years were from the late 90's request of the government to make home ownership a reality for more people. Fannie and Freddie took the chance on it.