Drill baby drill!

[Gophermuncher]

This an official government report on the effects of drilling offshore. Really, is this worth the damage to the environment? Basically the report says that if we start right now, drilling would start in 2017. The decrease of prices at the pump will be almost zero until maybe 2030.

any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

I don't think it's worth it. Some may argue that we need to drill now in order to alleviate gas prices. But drilling offshore won't help the prices at the pump for at least 20 years.I sure hope that by 2030 we already have alternative energy in place.

To paraphrase, those shouting "drill baby drill!" when we're on the nascence of alternative energy is like someone shouting "typewriters baby typewriters!" when the internet was taking form.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html

[AgentSkully]

I'm pretty sure that by 2030, todays standards of oil use will be nearly obsolete in automobiles and commercial shipping. sure we'll use it for our petroleum based products like plastics and other synthetic materials, but I think regenerative electricty will take over within the next 20 years.

on a side note, now may be a good time to buy stock in batteries

[Gophermuncher]

I hope so, but then why all the hub bub about drilling offshore if our politicians aren't as optimistic as you are?

[AgentSkully]

most of the politicians today are over 50 and have spent their entire life relying on crude oil, so to them todays technology is more of a supplemental source of transportation. What their blind eyes fail to see lies beneath the hood of the Chevy Volt. THAT is what the future will bring, not the inefficient hybrids that slow down traffic to get 10 more miles to the gallon then a Honda accord. What they are thinking of is how to keep up with the pace we are currently at as far as consumption, and to increase production to meet todays capacity....in the future.

Thats not to say that ALL politicians think this way in terms of alternative fuels, just the ones that are pushing for more production NOW. Dont worry though, their generation will die off and people that are the same age me will be in congress in 20 years so the future really lies in our hands....so its up to US to make a difference. Technology will prevail! I'd even bet on it.

[Cuse]

Had Congress not spent the past 30 years fighting with eachother over drilling and not doing anything, we would already have this drilling today.

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Cuse

Had Congress not spent the past 30 years fighting with eachother over drilling and not doing anything, we would already have this drilling today.

And what would that have bought us?

[spydermn]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

I don't think it's worth it. Some may argue that we need to drill now in order to alleviate gas prices. But drilling offshore won't help the prices at the pump for at least 20 years.I sure hope that by 2030 we already have alternative energy in place.

To paraphrase, those shouting "drill baby drill!" when we're on the nascence of alternative energy is like someone shouting "typewriters baby typewriters!" when the internet was taking form.

I can defintly see what you are talking about as far as future vehicals, and as much as I love my v8 rumble and go, it is a gas hog.

BUT....The fact still rests on the fact that even in 2020 we will still have MILLIONS of internal combustion cars on the road. Take a look around you. How many late model cars do you see (2005+) and how many olders cars do you see driving down the road? How many of those older cars are falling apart at the seems becuase people cannot/will not afford to fix them. Now you want to tell me that all these people that can barely afford to put gas in the ozone rapers is going to go drop $25,000+ on a new car? Or are they going to have their jolapy(sp?) retrofitted with a new hybrid/atl fuel propulsion system (cost?)? I really doubt it. How about the truckers? Yours going to try to tell me that they are going to make an alternitve to a desiel tractor that is capable of pulling 50,000lbs? Or how about the big dump trucks that have a desiel generator that powers them. What about the tankers, ships and boats?...I could go on and on but you should get the point. We will need oil, we will need gas, we will need desiel. This is a good thing that will take time but I see the stats showing that we need it.

BTW check the account info I live in one of the states that will be the most highly effeced by off shore drilling.

[AgentSkully]

Originally Posted by spydermn

How about the truckers? Yours going to try to tell me that they are going to make an alternitve to a desiel tractor that is capable of pulling 50,000lbs? .

they already do...they are called trains which are diesel electric and pull millions of tons of products at a time and are more fuel effeciant then trucks. electric powered with diesel generators are the where we need to be looking into.

the same concept of this train is being used in the chevy volt where the engine only charges the battery and the electric motor drives the car.

[spydermn]

Did you not read my whole post?

I really doubt it. How about the truckers? Yours going to try to tell me that they are going to make an alternitve to a desiel tractor that is capable of pulling 50,000lbs? Or how about the big dump trucks that have a desiel generator that powers them. What about the tankers, ships and boats?...I could go on and on but you should get the point. We will need oil, we will need gas, we will need desiel.

they have them but they are not practical on a smaller scale, yet.

But your statement proves my point: we are still going to need oil. Thanks for doing that for me

[HIJACKER]

Originally Posted by spydermn

I can defintly see what you are talking about as far as future vehicals, and as much as I love my v8 rumble and go, it is a gas hog.

BUT....The fact still rests on the fact that even in 2020 we will still have MILLIONS of internal combustion cars on the road. Take a look around you. How many late model cars do you see (2005+) and how many olders cars do you see driving down the road? How many of those older cars are falling apart at the seems becuase people cannot/will not afford to fix them. Now you want to tell me that all these people that can barely afford to put gas in the ozone rapers is going to go drop $25,000+ on a new car? Or are they going to have their jolapy(sp?) retrofitted with a new hybrid/atl fuel propulsion system (cost?)? I really doubt it.

No, but the changes to move away from oil will be a 25 year process. If you want to ask those questions, let's think about more accurate figures.

Assuming 100% alternate fuel vehicles not dependant on gas were available for purchase by 2010, that gives you 20 years before the year 2030 for these to be purchased and cycled into the streets. So, by the year 2030, that means you would need to own a vehicle that was produced in the last 20 years. So, in today's terms, what percentage of the vehicles on the road are pre-1988 and driven DAILY? I would say the ratio is very small.

Also, to claim "alternate fuel" isn't powerful enough for large vehicles or industrial use is ignorant. Electric is actually MUCH more powerful than gasoline. Feel free to look up examples or magnetic power, electric, etc when it comes to trains. Besides, you're making a statement in 2008 assuming HyBrid and Alternate Fuel techology can't support those needs 22 years from now.

As I see it, gasoline will still be needed for that very SMALL percentage of vehicles and antiques/classics, but a HEFTY premium will be paid per gallon and special tags will be needed (similiar to how Antiques have tags seperating them from daily driver use and emissions/smog).

My theory is to create "Green Lanes" on the highways. Assuming it's a 6 lane highway, it would work like this:

Starting from Far Left:
2010-2012 (1 Green Lane, 5 Regular Lanes)
2013-2015 (2 Green Lanes, 4 Regular Lanes)
2016-2020 (3 Green Lanes, 3 Regular Lanes)
2021-2025 (4 Green Lanes, 2 Regular Lanes)
2026+ (All Green unless you have specialty plates/excemption)

Also, I would impose increased tolls on toll roads for vehicles while keeping reduced rates for green vehicles.

The amount of drilling we do in the US will be enough to satisify a "reduced" need in the future without tapping into additional resources off the coast which provides absolutely NO immediate benefit.

My point is, there are ways to do it.

[AgentSkully]

Originally Posted by spydermn

Did you not read my whole post?

they have them but they are not practical on a smaller scale, yet.

But your statement proves my point: we are still going to need oil. Thanks for doing that for me

My focus was on the "truckers", The technology IS practicle on a smaller scale, we just need someone to develope it for highway trucks.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Phinhead54

And what would that have bought us?

Uhmm, more oil production than we have in the US today?

[bondja]

Drilling off shore in my reasoning is one of the most stupidest things ever. We waste all the natural resources we have then go back to our supplier right now and say "oh we used all of ours, can we take yours" And they'll see we have no backup supply so they'll hike the prices up and there is nothing we can do about it.

[AgentSkully]

the oil field in alaska and under the arctic ocean off the coase is said to have the largest oil field ever discovered...one day they'll be paying US.

[HIJACKER]

Originally Posted by AgentSkully

the oil field in alaska and under the arctic ocean off the coase is said to have the largest oil field ever discovered...one day they'll be paying US.

Fantastic.. in that case, let's sell Alaska back to Russia (or whichever country would be interested) to wipe the entire US debt away.

[Gophermuncher]

Originally Posted by Cuse

Uhmm, more oil production than we have in the US today?

It would lower gas prices almost by almost zero; zero as in maybe at best one penny. My question is: is it worth the damage to the environment for fuel that is a penny less 20 years from now?

[Phinhead54]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

It would lower gas prices almost by almost zero; zero as in maybe at best one penny. My question is: is it worth the damage to the environment for fuel that is a penny less 20 years from now?

Also, ANWR isn't the only offshore location up for drilling. We're talking about all cost lines, visible from the shore ... there are some places that rely on the pristine beauty to draw tourists to the area. When I have time to dig around there was actually a study done that estimated the amount of tourist revenue that would be lost by erecting oil rigs near vacation spots.

Plus, there are already hundreds of thousands of square miles of offshore areas where drilling is allowed but is not being utilized. Drill there first.

[Cuse]

Originally Posted by Gophermuncher

It would lower gas prices almost by almost zero; zero as in maybe at best one penny. My question is: is it worth the damage to the environment for fuel that is a penny less 20 years from now?

We should have started drilling 30 years ago. Alternative fuel passenger cars are still many years away. Electricity is still largely fueled by coal, which has it's own effect on the environment. clean coal is 10-20 years away. Diesel trucks won't be powered by anything alternative for quite some time. Until we find away to transport all the goods we walk into a store and buy through some other mode of transportation, diesel is necessary.

Had we started drilling 20-30 years ago instead of arguing about it, we would have more oil from our own production. That should equate to lower cost.

Take Dubai for example. Massive oil deposits. They use more oil in their desalinization plant than they sell on the market. They are still make money hand over fist on it. So yes, I believe we would have lower prices now if we started drilling then.

There is plenty of incentive to grow alternative fuel technology, we just can't make anything mass produceable.