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Old 08/20/2012, 04:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Built Motor Low compression

Currently, the car turnovers but doesn't want to start. I have a 3.6L 6G74 motor that's built with 8.8:1 low compression pistons, and RPW stage 2 turbo camshaft profiles with RPW adjustable gears that are set at normal timing. I already knew I would have lower compression in comparison to stock, but I wasn't expecting it to be so low that I couldn't start the vehicle. I didn't think the profiles on these camshafts would be a problem either.

I tested cylinders 2,4,6 and all were 140 across the board. Also one thing to note, I have the exhaust down pipe currently uninstalled since is doesn't fit and am waiting for my RPW headers, but this couldn't make a difference in starting could it? Manifolds are on. I installed a walboro 255 fuel pump, the gas in the tank is old but should be roughly only be 3-4 gallons. I filled the car up with roughly 4 gallons of 93 octane and poured some Lucas fuel system cleaner with it as well.

Some more info. I'm using the stock 2000 Gt fed spec distributor with NGK iridium's plugs BKR6EIX-11 with Bosch wires.

I'm definitely stomped here . Help Please!

Last edited by Daboss254; 08/20/2012 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 08/20/2012, 04:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Some more info: Top ring gap is 0.022" and 2nd ring gap is 0.024"
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Old 08/20/2012, 09:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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do you have fuel pressure?
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Old 08/20/2012, 09:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Do you have injector pulse? Do you have spark?
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Old 08/21/2012, 02:24 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Throwing p0183 (fuel temp)

Found this link. I'm now 100% sure it's fuel pressure related without even checking pressure. I started thinking back to the install and I may have forgot something.

My fuel filter is probably off since it doesn't have these little clamps holding it down... .. Perhaps low fuel pump delivery pressure.



Another thing, is this rubber grommet suppose to be overlapping that plastic piece my thumb is touching or is that just a spacer? I just treated it as a spacer since I didn't see any indention within the inner portion of the grommet for it to clasp in and tension of the rubber looked like it would break the plastic piece.



Here's a video from earlier in the day of me trying to start it. There's a big pop at the end.



After I deal with the fuel pump, I'll go ahead and check out the pulse and spark. I don't have the tools for testing for fuel pressure. Do one of the automotive chains have a tool for rent that can be used for our cars. I don't think we have a fuel pressure test adapter like some cars do.
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Old 08/21/2012, 06:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Spark is good so no problem with wires or distributor. Injector pulse is good, 12V at plugs with engine off, 0V with engine on. Seen actual combustion flames come out of the lower intake on a couple of the runners

I was looking at the manual and I'm not sure where to even get that type of fuel pressure tester that connects to rail and high pressure fuel hose. I only found kits that attach to an adapter on a fuel line.
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Old 08/21/2012, 07:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You should be seeing a constant power and a pulsing ground when cranking at the plugs, steady pulsing ground. 140 PSI should be enough to start an engine.

Flames out of the lower intake? Wut?
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Old 08/21/2012, 09:53 PM   #8 (permalink)
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You should be seeing a constant power and a pulsing ground when cranking at the plugs, steady pulsing ground. 140 PSI should be enough to start an engine.

Flames out of the lower intake? Wut?
Should I be seeing a constant change of 12V to 0V going back and forth as the car is turning over? If so, I didn't witness this. As soon as the keys were put in the ignition, the volt meter read 0 V on the plug. Sorry, I could be doing the diagnosis wrong. I don't have one of those quick probes either on hand that would actually show me illumination of the constant flow.

Oh, and the flames from the lower intake manifold are a mystery to me.

I put everything back together and tried turning it over again, no luck obviously. However it sounds closer to igniting than before. I'm seeing exhaust fumes come from the exhaust manifolds as well.

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Old 08/21/2012, 09:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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use a noid light to see if the injectors are pulsing steadily, or a xmas tree bulb shoved into the plug.

It sort of sounds out of time to me, did you get the timing ring on the back of the crank pulley in the correct location?
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Old 08/21/2012, 10:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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use a noid light to see if the injectors are pulsing steadily, or a xmas tree bulb shoved into the plug.

It sort of sounds out of time to me, did you get the timing ring on the back of the crank pulley in the correct location?
If you're refering to the key on the crankshaft sprocket, then yeah that is aligned with the block marking. I manually rotated maybe 25 times and ensured cams/crank were all set on marks. Paranoid. I REALLY did not want to have to deal with retiming with the motor in the car.

I'm thinking about siphoning out all off the gas, even though I mixed fresh 93 oct with old gas (old gas = 87 oct), which is something I don't want in my fancy new block, and come to realize I should of done that in the first place.. Could it make even the little difference?
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Old 08/21/2012, 10:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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No, the reluctor wheel on the crank sprocket that commonly gets knocked out of place when doing a timing belt job or engine build.
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Old 08/21/2012, 10:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Oh, that was my first thought when you said ring I made sure it was in place and not rubbing the sensor on rotations.
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Old 08/21/2012, 11:23 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It's got two little dimples that keep it aligned, easy to mess up. Shoot a timing light at the crank to make sure it's firing spark/fuel at the right time. Are all the sensors connected? How are you seeing flames in the lower intake manifold?
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Old 08/22/2012, 12:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how the flames came through the intake manifold but it occurred as I was testing compression on the 5th clyinder. Scared the shit out of me, and a little bit excited . I was just looking at the gauge and as my neighbor turned it over once, I read 60 psi, again, and once more where it finally hit 145 psi, and all I see are these mild red and blue flames torch upward.
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Old 08/22/2012, 12:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like you keyed the distributor wrong. RPW cams have two slots because the 72 and 74 have different distributors in that they are keyed 60 degrees off. You have to set the engine to top dead center then install the distributor such that the rotor points to cylinder one which should be something like 5 o clock.

You're getting spark at the wrong time which would explain flames up the intake manifold.
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Old 08/22/2012, 12:46 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Is the whole intake installed on the engine? I mean the upper intake would be bolted to the lower which bolts to the heads so there's no way you'd be able to see inside the lower intake ports unless you don't have the upper intake installed and well....it won't run with out the upper intake and throttle body and MAF and sensors installed.
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Old 08/22/2012, 01:06 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like you keyed the distributor wrong. RPW cams have two slots because the 72 and 74 have different distributors in that they are keyed 60 degrees off. You have to set the engine to top dead center then install the distributor such that the rotor points to cylinder one which should be something like 5 o clock.

You're getting spark at the wrong time which would explain flames up the intake manifold.
Whew! Easy fix. Hopefully. What's funny is I was struggling trying to put the distributor in trying to find the slots after the motor was in the car, but when it was out, everything was all nice and set. I probably should had left it on from the get go. Priming the motor took it out of TDC.

Bitter, the Upper was off since I was doing testing on the back cylinders.
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Old 08/22/2012, 02:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigndance :


Thanks Silvertune. I knew it was just that close. I wouldn't had even thought of it, but bitter basically nailed it on the timing, just spark timing was the culprit. I can't wait until tomorrow morning to restart her again and let her motor warm up.

I can't wait until these headers get here.
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Old 08/22/2012, 01:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like you keyed the distributor wrong. RPW cams have two slots because the 72 and 74 have different distributors in that they are keyed 60 degrees off. You have to set the engine to top dead center then install the distributor such that the rotor points to cylinder one which should be something like 5 o clock.

You're getting spark at the wrong time which would explain flames up the intake manifold.
Nice call
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Old 08/22/2012, 01:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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No problem. I can't wait to learn more about your setup.

I want to ask as well, what's your break in schedule?
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Old 08/22/2012, 05:41 PM   #21 (permalink)
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No problem. I can't wait to learn more about your setup.

I want to ask as well, what's your break in schedule?
Still undecided on whether I should beat on it, mainly holding 3000 rpm while driving, or doing 2500 rpm shifts and just babying it. How have you gone about breaking in motors?

I plan to do oil changes with normal 10W-30 Pennzoil or Castrol GTX at 100, 500, 1500 miles, and thereafter switch to synthetic at 4500 miles.

So it happens I have found my first problem! I have a coolant leak from the rear bank head on the firewall side of the block. Motor was on for only 20 seconds until I turned it off since I don't want to idle it. I'd say it looks like a couple ounces. Also I noticed very small leak of oil on the lower oil pan (not dripping), so looks like I'll be doing an oil change already just so I can reseal that part of the pan. I torqued the heads first to 42 Nm in proper order then to 85 Nm in proper order. I loosened them in backwards order then re tighten in the same previous order.... sigh..
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Old 08/22/2012, 07:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Warm it up and let it cool all the way off at least 4 times. Next go for a short drive. For the first 30 miles keep it under 2500 rpm's with as little throttle as you can. Then you can do mild throttle and under 3500 until 100 miles. Change your oil at 100 miles then you can do hard throttle but under 5k. Once you hit 150 miles then run a few tanks through it real hard but don't redline it until you've gotten at least 200 on it. At a thousand miles it should be good to go, put your synthetic oil in it and boost the crap out of it.

This is exactly what I did with my motor, people can say what they want about how well engines break in but mine's doing fine.
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