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Old 01/12/2013, 10:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rough Idle, Low MPG, 03 GS, Please Help...

Hello Everyone,
I recently picked up a 03 Eclipse GS in MINT Condition. With the seller in the car, we had it up to 140 (KM/h) and it didnít even hiccup. Very nice. Idle was fine and all.

Well recently, I was in a snowstorm (Ottawa, Canada) and was in a minor accident, If you can even call it thatÖ The driver parked on the side of the road randomly pulled out without any lights or flashers and I had hit him. With the 4 inches of snow on the ground I was only going roughly 20km/h when the incident took place. Slightly cracked my bumper. Friggen plastic bumpers. Anyways, this is when I first experienced a problem.

My car has been rough idling ever since the accident. But Iíve been told it probably isnít related. Things it could be; recent oil change to synthetic, car is burning a slight amount of coolant, recently got cold in Canada (below 0 degrees Celcius)

Here is how it happens. I start my car from cold and it seems perfectly fine. Shoots up to about 1500RPM until the temp gauge reaches the C on the Gauge. (Choke I assume). Once it reaches the C it will idle at around 800 RPM until warm and will stay at 800 RPM when idling. Unless I drive it more than about 25Km. After about 25 Km (Constant speed), when I go to stop, my idle drops to about 500 and then goes back up to 700, then back down to 400, and it will just constantly go up and down. It even died once.

Iíve been researching and searing forums and manuals. So far I have eliminated a few elements (I believe), Iíve ran about 2 full tanks of Fuel injector Cleaner, things have only gotten worse since (Not the FIC, but just overtime as the problem persists). Then I cleaned the MAF Sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner (Works with ALL MAFs). No change. Then I had brought it to my mechanic and said it could possibly be my Throttle Body, We took of the air intake and it was quite dirty. Cleaned it out and still no change. (Although it did idle high when warm at idle for abit. Iím assuming it was the ecu not configured with it yet.) I have also today cleaned out the IAC valve, quite dirty as there was carbon build up on the tip, cleaned it off and now it looks new. I had also noticed that the Throttle body was dirty again. Not as bad but abit dirty.

This is all I have done as Iím starting to run out of ideas. I had the oil light flicker a few times while accelerating, but Iím not sure if that could be related? I tried pulling codes to get an idea, but there were none. My SRS light stays on for about 5 seconds upon ignition and my CEL isnít lit.

Iíve been thinking it may be my EGR Valve because of the bad idling after driving constant speeds. Does this sound possible? Anything would be helpful, I just want this gone. Also, my Fuel Mileage is low. About half as bad as it used to be, a slight loss in power, and obviously the low idle. I have a but of engine shake when the carís idle is jumping around.

Thanks,

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Old 01/12/2013, 10:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You check for cracked hoses or other sources of vac leak?


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Old 01/12/2013, 11:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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You check for cracked hoses or other sources of vac leak?


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Thanks for the quick reply. I looked over hoses and none seem frayed or dryed out/cracked. I may have missed one or two though. Possibly. How many are there? and where abouts are they?

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Old 01/13/2013, 02:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Look along the route from after the MAF (airflow sensor) to the motor itself. There should be one from the intake to the valve cover, one from the valve cover to the intake manifold, intake manifold to brake boost, the lines on the TB, one to the solenoid for fuel, and I can't think of others ATM.

Also, check the intake manifold itself. Especially where the throttle body mounts. The accident could've cracked it


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Old 01/13/2013, 02:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Might not even be a vac leak. Maybe your MAF died in the accident. It's possible


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Old 01/13/2013, 05:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like your IAC is bad. I would go to the junk yard and try swapping one out to see if it fixes the problem. I had that same thing happen to me, I cleaned my original IAC and it helped a little but still no go. I picked one up from a local yard and it idled perfect with no fluctuation.

Also like the previous answer, check your Vac. lines and replace them. If unmonitored air gets in the intake then it throws everything off and it makes it work harder trying to compensate for it.

Always start with the cheapest and simplest solutions first before you start dropping a lot of cash in it troubleshooting. I have learned that the hard way myself.
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Old 01/13/2013, 11:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like your IAC is bad. I would go to the junk yard and try swapping one out to see if it fixes the problem. I had that same thing happen to me, I cleaned my original IAC and it helped a little but still no go. I picked one up from a local yard and it idled perfect with no fluctuation.

Also like the previous answer, check your Vac. lines and replace them. If unmonitored air gets in the intake then it throws everything off and it makes it work harder trying to compensate for it.

Always start with the cheapest and simplest solutions first before you start dropping a lot of cash in it troubleshooting. I have learned that the hard way myself.
Acctually, i was driving around today, and it seemed better, it wasn't jumping as much, just bogging down to about 500 RPM and jumping between 500-600 instead of 350-800RPM. (I cleaned the IAC valve yesterday). So this sounds kinda possible. Some of the time it wasn't even doing it after 20km. But when i drove about 30km it started acting funny again. So i will give it a swap. and post my results as soon as I can.

As to CloudINC00, I will look around the places you have suggested and search online for any possible ones you have missed. I removed the intake manifold when cleaning the TB and IACv and it was fine, no damage all along it. As for the possibliliy of the MAF Sensor, I had cleaned it off, didn't change anything, so while it was idling rough i unplugged it and it was still idling rough, hardly any change (other than CEL light). From there i reset the ECU and went on in my quest.
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Old 01/13/2013, 11:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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the best way to find a vac leak is the smoke test. if you smoke go light one up and blow it in the bay if not find someone who does. lol but you IAC seems like it may be your culprit.
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Old 01/13/2013, 12:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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the best way to find a vac leak is the smoke test. if you smoke go light one up and blow it in the bay if not find someone who does. lol but you IAC seems like it may be your culprit.
No I dont smoke, but i'll get someone who does to try it out. What should i be looking for? A gust of air coming out? I'm not sure what.

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Old 01/13/2013, 01:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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its for a vacuum leak. so your looking for areas the the smoke gets sucked into. you will have to do this with the car running BTW.
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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For fucks sake guys....

This isn't the problem reports forum, when you see a thread out of place report it as such. Do I need to go back to banning those who reply to out of place threads?

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Old 01/13/2013, 01:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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For fucks sake guys....

This isn't the problem reports forum, when you see a thread out of place report it as such. Do I need to go back to banning those who reply to out of place threads?

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Oops. Sorry about that. I had seen other threads with problems so i had posted here. Sorry about that.
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:15 PM   #13 (permalink)
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its for a vacuum leak. so your looking for areas the the smoke gets sucked into. you will have to do this with the car running BTW.
Okay. That makes more sense, and it would be easier to see. I had assumed it would be with the car running. Not much happens when its off. Thanks
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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1. You CANNOT clean the MAFS. It's a Karmen Vortex sensor and there's a special coating which is removed by the cleaner, read the can again.
2. Is the car all stock or do you have an intake?
3. Is the engine light on?
4. Read the stuck threads at the top of this forum and add in the required information.
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:16 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Oops. Sorry about that. I had seen other threads with problems so i had posted here. Sorry about that.
You're new, but these guys should have known better.
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Old 01/13/2013, 01:35 PM   #16 (permalink)
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1. You CANNOT clean the MAFS. It's a Karmen Vortex sensor and there's a special coating which is removed by the cleaner, read the can again.
2. Is the car all stock or do you have an intake?
3. Is the engine light on?
4. Read the stuck threads at the top of this forum and add in the required information.
1. Yeah, i know about the Karmen vortex sensor thing. I had purchased a can of CRC MAF Sensor Cleaning stuff and it says safe to use on All MAF Sensors. It didn't have an exclude list like some of the other products or some of the other CRC cans. This one said "ALL". Although it was quite clean in the first place.
2. All stock, not a single mod.
3. No engine light and i pulled codes, nothing.
4. I'll read them now.
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Old 01/13/2013, 08:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Sorry I'm on my phone and just look at latest posts and reply. There's no forum layout on here just trying to be active and help out


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Old 01/13/2013, 08:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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And you banned people who replied before? Wow


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Old 01/23/2013, 05:06 PM   #19 (permalink)
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To move on...

So, within the last week i have noticed and done some more solving. I picked up an IAC Valve and a MAF Sensor both used but in good condition on a low mileage car.

So i swapped in the IACv and nothing has really changed. I havn't installed the new MAF yet. Is it possible that both my IACv's are bad? And when unplugging the IACv during warm start up, the idle drops for a second and then goes back up...?

I tested out my PCV Valve and it was working great. Suction coming from the attatched hose and all.

I seriously can't understand this problem. I'm having high idle (1250 RPM's ish) and real low MPG. Everything seems to be working fine. I was tempting to adjust the Speed Adjustment Screw (SAS) but after reading up on it, the engine would only correct the problem.

I went from low and rough idle (350rpm-800rpm) so i cleaned the throttle body and iac valve and now i have high idle around (1200-1300) It fiddles a bit but not like before at all. But i do have a decrease in MPG with the higher idle.

Any info would be great.

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Old 01/28/2013, 05:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Hello All, So an update to my problems...

I've been diagnosing this problem everytime there is something wrong with the idling. Well after driving the car for half an hour last night, I parked it in the driveway, and lo and behold, it was idling high. So i did some research and thought it could be my Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. So i tried diagnosing my fans. And they wouldn't come on. I tried idling for 10 mins, ac on full blast, heat, rear window defroster and all combinations. So i thought, oh, my engine thinks its not totally warmed up, hence the high idle.

I went and unplugged it and my fans instantly came on, so i plugged it back in, restarted the engine, and voila, it was revving at least 400RPMs. Its around 980RPm instead of 1200-1400RPM. So i am going to replace that part, i was going to today, but didn't have time, so possibly tomorrow.

Anyways, today after driving for 30 mins, my origional problem came back, low idle. My idle way around 4-500RPM. So i popped the hood and checked my EGR Valve, and it was trying to suck air. I unplugged the hose from the nipple, it made a little pop, and my enigine went back to revving around 980RPM.

I'm just confused what this can be... Enigine Temperature sensor and my EGR Valve? Or is it my EGR Solenoid? I'm quite confused. I'm ready to replace both!

Thanks
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Old 01/28/2013, 08:06 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Take out your egr valve, clean it. And make sure the hose from the egr valve fits right. I had this problem and solved it by replacing my egr valve. And the hose. Good luck!
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Old 01/29/2013, 12:04 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Take out your egr valve, clean it. And make sure the hose from the egr valve fits right. I had this problem and solved it by replacing my egr valve. And the hose. Good luck!
Alright. Ill replace it. I'll replace both. I just bought the car a few months back so i'll replace the coolant to. And while im changing the coolant i'll put in a new Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. I just hope this fixes my problem.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 01/31/2013, 05:13 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Same problem

2003 Manual GTS Spyder
I just had the valve gasket replaced . the one near the fire wall. Got the car back and i have the strange idle fluctuating between 400-800. It was idling flat at 850 or so (from memory) before i brought it in.
My oil leak appears to be gone (yeah) but now i have this new problem. I'll post back when I figure it out but it seems like maybe the shop I'm working with forgot to hook something back up correctly?
It would be odd if a part suddenly went bad. I would check connections before replacing lots of parts.
Its a good shop. i know they replaced the plenum gasket (manifold gasket?) as it had to be removed to get to the valve cover. they said took them the better part of the day so it seems like there is a good possibility that something didnt get put back quite right.

Good luck, i'm watching this thread with interest.
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Old 02/03/2013, 05:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Update

Hello All,

So I would just like to update everyone on my situation. After many long and frustrating hours of removing that awefully placed EGR Valve and the most complicated thing of removing the stuck coolant hoses... lol, turns out my EGR Valve isn't my problem.

But i got to do some more diagnosing. My car idles HIGH most of the time (in the city) and idles LOW after a constant speed of around 80 KM/h for longer than 5 mins. I believe the HIGH idle is from the Coolant temp sensor, im going to test it when i get a chance, but now im more confused about the low idle.

Description of my low idle. The problem lies in my EGR Valve/Solenoid/Tube. I believe my EGR Valve is fine (Since i replaced it).
My situation:
1. I drive around for 15 Mins at a constant speed, car idles low
2. I pop the hood in my driveway (While its idling at around 500RPM)
3. Engine is shaking and exhaust is studdering from the low idle (I presume)
4. I unplug the tube from the EGR Valve Nipple. (Engine instantly goes up in idle)
5. I block the nipple of the EGR Valve with my finger, no change...
6. Being confused i try to block the tube, and low and behold the engine dies down again...

So i'm assuming when all is connected, my EGR Solenoid is trying to suck air from the tube which splits in a 'T'. Top left of the 'T' going to EGR Valve and top right goes to EGR Solenoid. Of the two options the Solenoid can suck air, it obviously wont suck from the EGR Valve (When working properly?). So its trying to suck from the tube (Bottom of the 'T').

My question is, why is the air from the other end being blocked off? Where does it come from? And the tube isn't blocked because it only does it after small constant speed drives... I'm am now lost. Please help
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Old 02/06/2013, 07:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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More information!!!

Just another update and hope for a solution or advice. And tips...

I've been constantly reading about my problem and have narrowed it down to 2 things, i hope. Either a bad Vacuum Control Valve or my ECT sensor.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for if it is either of the two?

Could a bad Vacuum control valve cause low idle sometimes but not all the time?

And can a low/high/bad reading ECT sensor cause:

High idle - Yes because it things engine is still cold
Rough idle - Yes because temperatures keep changing?
Low MPG - Yes because of high idle and thinks engine is cold
Low idle? - No F***ing idea? Would it affect the EGR and if its giving a high temp cause the EGR to turn on in attempt to lower the engine temperature?

I'm lost. But anyways, recently, i've noticed the RPM's getting higher at cold starts. And some of the starts are getting harder. Takes a half second or 2 longer than normal.

Before my car would always start and idle at 1500-1700RPM (Cold start at around -4 F or -20) and then die down to either high 1200-1400 RPM at warm or low 500-600 at warm engine.

But recently its been cold starting around 1500RPM and slowly crawls to 2000-2250 When dead cold. It'll warm up to the C on the dummy gague and drop to 1500RPM

Thanks, And any info would be great.
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Old 04/02/2013, 12:48 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Just another update and hope for a solution or advice. And tips...

I've been constantly reading about my problem and have narrowed it down to 2 things, i hope. Either a bad Vacuum Control Valve or my ECT sensor.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for if it is either of the two?

Could a bad Vacuum control valve cause low idle sometimes but not all the time?

And can a low/high/bad reading ECT sensor cause:

High idle - Yes because it things engine is still cold
Rough idle - Yes because temperatures keep changing?
Low MPG - Yes because of high idle and thinks engine is cold
Low idle? - No F***ing idea? Would it affect the EGR and if its giving a high temp cause the EGR to turn on in attempt to lower the engine temperature?

I'm lost. But anyways, recently, i've noticed the RPM's getting higher at cold starts. And some of the starts are getting harder. Takes a half second or 2 longer than normal.

Before my car would always start and idle at 1500-1700RPM (Cold start at around -4 F or -20) and then die down to either high 1200-1400 RPM at warm or low 500-600 at warm engine.

But recently its been cold starting around 1500RPM and slowly crawls to 2000-2250 When dead cold. It'll warm up to the C on the dummy gague and drop to 1500RPM

Thanks, And any info would be great.
I am having my own problems to and its getting very annoying. I just replaced my 4g62 or is it 64??? whatever to the 6g72 TB. at first it ran fine and it kept dieing. I I took it apart again and im sure I had the gasket on wrong. I if fixed that drove it around again and it ran fine until I noticed my rmps are going from 1000 to 1500 up and down very fast. then when I put it in park it will idle over 2000. when driving and trying to come to a stop its very hard to staop cause the engine keeps loping and wants to keep going. its like jerking back and forth between those rmps.. what could be wrong???
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Old 04/02/2013, 01:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Mitsu View Post
Just another update and hope for a solution or advice. And tips...

I've been constantly reading about my problem and have narrowed it down to 2 things, i hope. Either a bad Vacuum Control Valve or my ECT sensor.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions for if it is either of the two?

Could a bad Vacuum control valve cause low idle sometimes but not all the time?

And can a low/high/bad reading ECT sensor cause:

High idle - Yes because it things engine is still cold
Rough idle - Yes because temperatures keep changing?
Low MPG - Yes because of high idle and thinks engine is cold
Low idle? - No F***ing idea? Would it affect the EGR and if its giving a high temp cause the EGR to turn on in attempt to lower the engine temperature?

I'm lost. But anyways, recently, i've noticed the RPM's getting higher at cold starts. And some of the starts are getting harder. Takes a half second or 2 longer than normal.

Before my car would always start and idle at 1500-1700RPM (Cold start at around -4 F or -20) and then die down to either high 1200-1400 RPM at warm or low 500-600 at warm engine.

But recently its been cold starting around 1500RPM and slowly crawls to 2000-2250 When dead cold. It'll warm up to the C on the dummy gague and drop to 1500RPM

Thanks, And any info would be great.
Did you change the EGR solenoid? It sounds like your EGR is working properly, but is stuck open at idle, causing the stumbling. This could be the EGR solenoid, because this controls the EGR valve operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strat04 View Post
I am having my own problems to and its getting very annoying. I just replaced my 4g62 or is it 64??? whatever to the 6g72 TB. at first it ran fine and it kept dieing. I I took it apart again and im sure I had the gasket on wrong. I if fixed that drove it around again and it ran fine until I noticed my rmps are going from 1000 to 1500 up and down very fast. then when I put it in park it will idle over 2000. when driving and trying to come to a stop its very hard to staop cause the engine keeps loping and wants to keep going. its like jerking back and forth between those rmps.. what could be wrong???
You're having a different problem (surging).

Quote:
Originally Posted by kipperman View Post
2003 Manual GTS Spyder
I just had the valve gasket replaced . the one near the fire wall. Got the car back and i have the strange idle fluctuating between 400-800. It was idling flat at 850 or so (from memory) before i brought it in.
My oil leak appears to be gone (yeah) but now i have this new problem. I'll post back when I figure it out but it seems like maybe the shop I'm working with forgot to hook something back up correctly?
It would be odd if a part suddenly went bad. I would check connections before replacing lots of parts.
Its a good shop. i know they replaced the plenum gasket (manifold gasket?) as it had to be removed to get to the valve cover. they said took them the better part of the day so it seems like there is a good possibility that something didnt get put back quite right.

Good luck, i'm watching this thread with interest.
You might want to watch a different thread because you've got a totally different engine in your car. OP is running the 4-cylinder, you've got a 6-cylinder.
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Old 04/05/2013, 11:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=jaloosk;3377137]Did you change the EGR solenoid? It sounds like your EGR is working properly, but is stuck open at idle, causing the stumbling. This could be the EGR solenoid, because this controls the EGR valve operation.

Hey, Sorry. I thought i had posted my results, must not of went through? Weird. Anyways,

So the solenoid was the issue. She runs like a charm now. So if anyone with similar symptoms needs a hand, this was the answer.

Thanks to everyone that helped.

The Solenoid was stuck closed. Causing vacuum from the T fitting and because the Solenoid was shut it was constantly pulling air from the Valve, Causing exhaust gases to go in the chamber yada yada, it was causing rough idle. For quick diagnosis i recommend playing with the tubes. Un plugging/feeling for suction. So ya,

Goodluck everyone
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