Trying to Tune... - Page 3

johnsgalant · 06/30/2009, 07:54 PM

be careful with that knock control and make sure u r eliminating only false knock.. I get 2-3 on wot every now and again and thats acceptable even may up to 5-6 but if ur getting real knock down low u wont be protected so just make sure its ok... If the knock changes with timing it is probably real knock.. If u cannot get it to stop by lowering or raising timing then i would say its false..

itz_tha_dre · 08/30/2009, 10:38 PM

Well, just as an update, I still haven't gotten her tuned yet. Even with that knock control, it lessened the knock, but then it came back... but not as high.

I took OFF the knock control and I'm "knocking" at 36 while not even in boost. Awesome stuff.

I think I'll try to switch ROMs; maybe go back to the older 0014 or even the 0008 and see if it knocks as much. Maybe theres something with the 0015 ROM's knock filters that make it retarded sensitive, at least I hope.

If this isn't the case, its back to square one; rescaling MAF/Latencies/Injectors, etc.

Sigh, this is getting old quick. Is 250+ whp too much to ask for? I've been boosted for over 2 years now and am probably making less HP than I was NOT boosted. Sorry all, just venting. It's very discouraging when everything you do doesn't work.

johnsgalant · 08/31/2009, 07:43 PM

u wanna try my rom?? ITs the 94170008 with knock cel flash --

itz_tha_dre · 08/31/2009, 07:45 PM

Sure if you don't mind. I'd like to compare each of them and find out which one would work best for me, because so far, I'm having no luck at all with 94170015.

Theres actually a thread on the EvoM forums that evo owners are complaining about tip in knock with the 0015 rom but none with the 0014.

At your convenience, send it to andrecast4@gmail.com.

I really, really appreciate it. I just hope it works better than this one.

johnsgalant · 08/31/2009, 08:10 PM

ok sent.. Have you touched ur knock sensor by the way.. Do me a favor and ur next log log the knock voltage also == Im curious as to see why u get so much knock..

my mods are big 16g at 16psi -- 0 knock
450ccs blue top eclipse injectors
190lph fuel pump
evo rail and fpr

itz_tha_dre · 09/02/2009, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

ok sent.. Have you touched ur knock sensor by the way.. Do me a favor and ur next log log the knock voltage also == Im curious as to see why u get so much knock..

my mods are big 16g at 16psi -- 0 knock
450ccs blue top eclipse injectors
190lph fuel pump
evo rail and fpr

Thanks, but I think you might have to resend it. I never got it for some reason. Could you also attach the evo7base.xml as well as the 94170008.xml as well? Try my gmail as well as this one... acastillo@rmjlabs.com.

I want to make sure that it is the exact same as yours so there is nothing I can do to mess it up... lol.

I'll have to log it as soon as I can. Will let you know when I do and will definitely supply you with a log of it.

Knock sensor was changed out (to the original OEM one) to get rid of the possibility of a faulty one.

johnsgalant · 09/02/2009, 03:10 PM

ok sent again....

itz_tha_dre · 09/05/2009, 03:54 PM

So I've come through the conclusion (with the help of johnsgalant) that my car is going to knock all the time.

I've tried the following things...

Evo Ecu with the correct ROM this time (was previously using 94170015, but since it is an 05' Evo Ecu, I was supposed to be using 96530006, which I switched over to yesterday)

Lessened timing as well, used correct (from what I know, might have to look over this AGAIN) latencies/scaling.

Result - still knocks all over the place at 20+ counts under low and high load, no matter how much I changed the timing.

Decided to try my stock 3g ecu (2002 RS Ecu) with the 94170015 ROM, with modified lowered timing, correct latencies/scalings, etc.

Result - still getting 20 + counts of knock under both load conditions.

Tried it with Johnsgalants ROM version 94170008; and lo and behold, SAME result.

Now, to those of you who have not had any of these problems, I salute you, because this is beyond my comprehension.

I sincerely thank all of you for trying to help me out, but I think this is a lost cause. My car simply does not like boost, AT ALL.

I think I'm going to try to get her tuned by using the Knock Control that I posted awhile back; that's pretty much the only thing I can do.

If that doesn't work, I have no idea what I'll do with this car. I'm banking on it working... haha, but with my luck, it probably won't.

Keep you guys updated. Again, thanks to all of you for trying to help me out.

johnsgalant · 09/06/2009, 11:42 PM

u sure u dont have anything rattling around in the engine bay?? Also you sure ur motor is working to specs ?? compression test? Just spitballing

qnz · 09/07/2009, 09:06 PM

maybe you have something rattling around your transmission?

itz_tha_dre · 09/08/2009, 09:15 AM

Hey guys, yeah I'm almost 100% that I don't have anything rattling, but I'll double check just to make sure. I started thinking that it might not be an ecu thing but a mechanical thing, but I'll have to look into it.

I haven't done a compression test lately, and I'm thinking I should just to make sure.

Thanks for the input.

itz_tha_dre · 09/13/2009, 07:15 PM

Have you guys properly scaled your MAF as well? I don't think mine ever was... I think it was still my stock MAF settings before turbo...

Ithinkyou · 09/13/2009, 07:35 PM

I adjusted mine BARELY, only to get the afrs just that small bit closer

itz_tha_dre · 09/14/2009, 03:03 PM

I started thinking and searching a bit, and came across a thread where someone mentioned that the timing in his car was off after he did a timing belt change, but his car didn't end up starting again.

I actually got a timing belt change about a year ago, and I had to have my CPS sensor changed as well because of a problem with it.

I'm thinking, that could it be possible my timing is slightly off, which is why any adjustment to the timing maps the tuner made didn't work, but made it worse?

In order to check the timing again, I'd have to bring it to a mechanic and have him use a timing light, line up the cams, etc., correct? And how does this effect those maps in EcuFlash? Shouldn't the timing be corrected by the ECU anyways? I'm not too familiar with how that stuff works.

johnsgalant · 09/14/2009, 05:50 PM

yea if ur timing is off u will have a power reduction possibly knock -- the computer cant compensate for that but it will either add to the advance or retard where you should be..

itz_tha_dre · 09/14/2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

yea if ur timing is off u will have a power reduction possibly knock -- the computer cant compensate for that but it will either add to the advance or retard where you should be..

So do you think I should have it checked out? I mean, every change (timing wise, latency/scalings)it doesn't seem to do anything; it just keeps appearing.

While I'm at it might as well do a compression test too.

I'm even of thinking of running Seafoam through my fuel system/oil system/intake just to clear everything out.

Then I'll look at all my flash settings again if those still don't fix anything.

johnsgalant · 09/14/2009, 10:57 PM

looking at your logs ur timing is low on idle -- it was 1 to 3 when it should be hovering around 5 ?????? Is your car still running in open loop or what?? Also did u get scan tech??? download that and see if ur car is entering closed loop -- it can tell u alot like ur using the wrong rom or a sensor issue.... how many roms have you tried?? Also were u running a 3g ecu or a evo ecu i forget???

what spark plugs are you running and what gap??

2000RS-Turbo · 09/15/2009, 01:14 AM

have you tryed advancing your timing? i had to in a couple places, i would pull it but it would stay the same of get worse.

Ithinkyou · 09/15/2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000RS-Turbo

have you tryed advancing your timing? i had to in a couple places, i would pull it but it would stay the same of get worse.

if pulling it doesnt help why would adding more?

If his gaps the same as back when this thread 1st started.... ===>
Trying to Tune...

2000RS-Turbo · 09/15/2009, 12:06 PM

Knock can occure from not enough timing too. Idk it eliminated knock in some cells under 100 load, i tryed pullin but it stayed the same so i advanced the time an it went away

Ithinkyou · 09/15/2009, 04:25 PM

its not just in light load its across the board so he can get tuned. Hes done a couple of things thus far but theyve only been bandaids.

I think you should verify the belt is properly timed dre.

itz_tha_dre · 09/16/2009, 09:53 AM

First of all, I'd like to thank you guys (again) for trying to help me with this. As you can tell, I'm getting frustrated by it but looking at all your responses makes me want to figure it out even more.

Okay, johnsgalant... car is now in CLOSED loop. I got ScanTech, but haven't gotten it working (for some reason it won't let me connect to the tactrix cable; I've tried to change it in the options but it wouldn't save them. I looked at it for like 2 min though so I'll have to do it again)
-As for ROMS, I've tried yours, which is 94170008, then 94170014, 994170015, then I found out I was using the wrong ROM, so I went to 96530006. (this is all on the EVO Ecu) I tried 008, 0014, and 0015 on my 3g ECU, but the same results.

As for plugs, they are NGK iridiums 7eix's, gapped at I think .24 or .28, whatever they come pre-gapped at.

2000RSTurbo - I haven't tried advancing it, but I have tried the stock EVO timing (which I know is really advanced) but to no avail; same issue. I'll try doing that to the cells where I have knock and see what happens just revving. How bad was your knock under 100 load? Mine is ridiculous. lol.
One time I got 20+ counts at 20-30 load at 4 or 5 degrees timing. IN NEUTRAL.

Ithinkyou - after I do scantech and verify sensors/roms, as well as try to go at my timing maps again, I think that is what I'll have to do. Its the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

johnsgalant · 09/16/2009, 09:17 PM

how long have u had those plugs??? Try getting some ngk regular i think they are 7e or 7es... Gap them to .028... I would recommend at the time to do a quick compression test just to make sure.. Change those plugs and see if it improves. get anywhere in between .028 to .030..

for scantech -- on ur comp goto device manager and look under ports - find ur tactrix cable (u must have it connected for it to show up). Find the port its under usually 3 or 4 and goto scantech. Choose the jeff protocol in the settings and choose the port ur using. Connect - it should fail the first or second time but by the 2nd or third time it should connect and show you the vitals...

itz_tha_dre · 09/17/2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

how long have u had those plugs??? Try getting some ngk regular i think they are 7e or 7es... Gap them to .028... I would recommend at the time to do a quick compression test just to make sure.. Change those plugs and see if it improves. get anywhere in between .028 to .030..

for scantech -- on ur comp goto device manager and look under ports - find ur tactrix cable (u must have it connected for it to show up). Find the port its under usually 3 or 4 and goto scantech. Choose the jeff protocol in the settings and choose the port ur using. Connect - it should fail the first or second time but by the 2nd or third time it should connect and show you the vitals...

I've had them since March, when I started diagnosing the problem. I'll have to double check to see which ones they were, but I'm almost positive they were the BKR7EIX #2667; the ones for the Evo. (gotten from Choosing the right spark plug for FI applications)

Thanks for the advice about ScanTech; I'll have to try that out.

johnsgalant · 09/17/2009, 05:22 PM

np -- dont worry bout those plugs just get the $7 bkr7e and gap them to .28 to rull out spark plug issues for now.. and then report back im tired of ur problem and im positive you are lol... we will look at this logically.. Try to do compression tests ASAP though and get plugs and swap em just to eliminate

2000RS-Turbo · 09/17/2009, 08:34 PM

you should get the 8es they come prgapped at .28 an are good up to 30psi i just got a set the work great. i dont remember exactly which cells they were but i was getting 5-6 knock so i retarded the timing 2 an i was geting like 6-8 knock in that same cell so i advanced it and it went away. can you feel the knock? my friend has a dsm we tuned his car then he went an turned up the boost to 26psi when it was tuned for 14psi, but you could feel the knock when we were driving it was 18-40 counts. if you reading that high an cant feel it i would say phantom knock

itz_tha_dre · 09/18/2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

np -- dont worry bout those plugs just get the $7 bkr7e and gap them to .28 to rull out spark plug issues for now.. and then report back im tired of ur problem and im positive you are lol... we will look at this logically.. Try to do compression tests ASAP though and get plugs and swap em just to eliminate

LOL @ "i'm tired of ur problem" Haha I most definitely am too.

What do you guys think, the bkr7e or the bkr8es? Do you guys know the exact part numbers as well so I don't get the wrong ones? lol.

Thanks.

johnsgalant · 09/18/2009, 08:44 PM

bkr7e part number 4644 at advance auto parts.....

2000RS-Turbo · 09/19/2009, 12:14 AM

nope but advanced looked them up for me so they should for u just say u need bkr8es or the 7es its up to u but i never liked regapping the plugs. The bkr8es cost the same an come pregapped already at .28 and are rated for up 30psi

itz_tha_dre · 09/19/2009, 02:52 PM

Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the bkr8es, because I don't like regapping plugs either. You're sure its bkr8es right? Because when I googled that part number and looked on sparkplugs.com, it said there wasn't one. I found a bkr8e, bkr8eix, bkr8e-11, but no bkr8eS. ALso, do you know what car these plugs are meant for?

Thanks.

johnsgalant · 09/19/2009, 03:14 PM

they may not have the es line anymore last time i went they discoed the 7es thats why i said get the 7e instead but its not gapped.

itz_tha_dre · 09/19/2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

they may not have the es line anymore last time i went they discoed the 7es thats why i said get the 7e instead but its not gapped. For it to have a gap i think u need a -11 or something at the end... Like -11 is .044 or something like that but im sure u will have to regap ne ways...

Alright John it looks like I'm going to be ordering the 7E. These are COPPER plugs instead of IRIDIUM? Just to be sure. =D

johnsgalant · 09/19/2009, 03:37 PM

yea they are standard copper plugs -- u dont need iridium its a waste of money..

2000RS-Turbo · 09/19/2009, 05:06 PM

there all the same letters for both its the 7 or 8 that is the differnce, it must be the bkr8e

itz_tha_dre · 09/19/2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000RS-Turbo

there all the same letters for both its the 7 or 8 that is the differnce, it must be the bkr8e

I gotcha. I ended up getting the 7e's. Let you guys know whats up when I get them and put them in. Thanks again.

stgray22 · 09/19/2009, 07:09 PM

the 7 and the 8 indicate heat range. factory heat range for our cars is 5, so 7 is two ranges colder, 8 is three ranges colder. i run the bkr7eix pre-gapped at .30 and have no problems at all with spark.

2000RS-Turbo · 09/19/2009, 09:56 PM

i feel like a idiot... there bkr8eix, i was cleaning out my car an found the box

itz_tha_dre · 09/24/2009, 05:13 PM

Still waiting for my other spark plugs to come in tomorrow, but I took out the ones that were in the car. Heres a picture of them...

The 3rd one from the left looks a lot lighter than the other ones... what does this mean?

stgray22 · 09/24/2009, 05:22 PM

when they are black, it means you are running rich. maybe the cylinder that the 3rd came from isnt getting enough fuel? would explain why the knock isnt improving.

itz_tha_dre · 09/24/2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stgray22

when they are black, it means you are running rich. maybe the cylinder that the 3rd came from isnt getting enough fuel? would explain why the knock isnt improving.

Thats what I would think as well, but how do you increase fuel for one cylinder if that is the case? Or maybe that plug isn't firing correctly?

johnsgalant · 09/24/2009, 06:34 PM

maybe its not gapped correctly thats why i said to get new plugs to make sure.. Those plugs look ok. Maybe that injector is not not in synch... Anyway new plugs will eliminate or try to eliminate the plugs as the problem.. There is a dude on evom that figured out how to tell what cylinder is knocking with some code he wrote so if nothing improves ur issue then maybe that will tell u whats going on also..

itz_tha_dre · 09/24/2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

maybe its not gapped correctly thats why i said to get new plugs to make sure.. Those plugs look ok. Maybe that injector is not not in synch... Anyway new plugs will eliminate or try to eliminate the plugs as the problem.. There is a dude on evom that figured out how to tell what cylinder is knocking with some code he wrote so if nothing improves ur issue then maybe that will tell u whats going on also..

I know for a fact it can't be the gap because I didn't touch the gap; it was pre-gapped at either .28 or .30. (the 7EIX's)

I'm thinking that it might be an injector wiring issue or a faulty injector. Going to have a mechanic do a voltage check across each one just to see...

itz_tha_dre · 09/26/2009, 03:00 PM

So... I decided to get my injectors flow tested to make sure everything is okay, as well as check the wiring on my injector clips because I know they weren't soldered together, which I was planning on doing.

I'm taking apart the electrical tape, and looking at the injector clips and how they're wired. When looking at the clip, with the metal piece facing upwards, I notice that the right wire is the power wire that goes to the RED wire.

This held true for THREE of the injector clips, the LAST clip, (the one all the way to the right of the motor when facing the car) was wired OPPOSITELY.

I thought... WOW. That would explain a whole hell of a lot of things.

My main concern is, I've been running the car like this for 2 years!!!! What kind of damage can I expect? I mean, if the car has been opening 3 of the injectors and closing the 4th one this whole time, what could happen?

I guess I'll have to get a compression test on that cylinder and hope for the best.

But yeah, I'm surprised as hell.

FlashBlueRS · 09/26/2009, 07:33 PM

The polarity of the injectors doesn't matter. The wires can be swapped without any issues.

itz_tha_dre · 09/26/2009, 07:41 PM

really...?

I thought that if you had them reversed, it would cause it to do opposite things, like open when its supposed to be closed and visa versa?

I thought I saw that in someone's turbo thread... maybe clouds?

Edit: Yeah it was clouds... Cloud's turbo project

He said that there is a positive and negative side for the clips.

johnsgalant · 09/26/2009, 11:55 PM

there is a general way that we have all stuck to but im pretty sure he is right about wiring but you should keep it consistent either way.. We use the bigger wire for the red side and the smaller wire for the ground on the clips.. u would have seen a messed up AFR if your injector wasnt firing right...

itz_tha_dre · 09/26/2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsgalant

there is a general way that we have all stuck to but im pretty sure he is right about wiring but you should keep it consistent either way.. We use the bigger wire for the red side and the smaller wire for the ground on the clips.. u would have seen a messed up AFR if your injector wasnt firing right...

Yeah I'm going to switch it to the way the rest of them are just to be sure.

Going to get my injectors flow tested and cleaned just to be sure they're in working order.

We'll see what happens in the next week though... hopefully it'll get resolved soon with the new plugs, wires, and clean injectors and correct wiring.

itz_tha_dre · 10/02/2009, 12:10 PM

I got my injector results back from injector-rehab. Needless to say, they needed a good cleaning. 3 of them were only flowing at 408CCs, and the one was at 396CC. Yikes.

Now they're clean and flowing at 444CC! I'm just waiting to physically receive them and then put them on my car this weekend. Keep you guys posted.

Ithinkyou · 10/02/2009, 12:19 PM

Damn thats pretty bad. With faulty fuel delivery like that, youd have never got it running consistently

itz_tha_dre · 10/02/2009, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithinkyou

Damn thats pretty bad. With faulty fuel delivery like that, youd have never got it running consistently

Hopefully with them being cleaned it'll lessen my knock. We'll see. Kind of excited but don't want to get my hopes up too much.. haha.

itz_tha_dre · 10/07/2009, 08:31 AM

Update

This past weekend I tried to install my injectors, but the 2 bolts that mount the fuel rail to the block broke while I was trying to do it. Great.

So I went to the stealership and paid $23 dollars for 2 bolts, 1 insulator (7 dollars for that POS), and 2 other bolts that connect the feed line to the rail.

Hopefully will be getting it by Friday, but of course, on the weekend its supposed to rain! No luck whatsoever.

Oh well. Keep you guys posted.

Ithinkyou · 10/07/2009, 09:10 AM

I did that too man. I just hit up OSH though

although.... my nearest stealership is an hr away

itz_tha_dre · 10/07/2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithinkyou

I did that too man. I just hit up OSH though

although.... my nearest stealership is an hr away

OSH? What's that?

2000RS-Turbo · 10/07/2009, 02:13 PM

should have just hit up advance they have the parts the next morning at 7am

Ithinkyou · 10/07/2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itz_tha_dre

OSH? What's that?

Its a hardware store out here. Them or ACE hardware. theyve got a variety of bolts. Those ones are small so theyre easy to find vs my local auto stores that never have any bolts.

itz_tha_dre · 10/09/2009, 08:52 PM

So I finally got the parts from mitsubishi, and I went to install everything tonight. I started the car up, then I started to smell fuel. Great. Turns out there is fuel coming out of where Tearstone's adapter bolts up, its slow, but its there.

I didn't even touch that part when I took off the rail. Leads me to believe fuel isn't getting somewhere it should be.

I had this weird thing happen while trying to install my injectors though. I lined everything up, but the fuel injectors wouldn't fully touch the block where the injectors tips are. (where they spray out of). I looked at the hole to the block, and there are these plastic pieces that seemed to prevent it from going in all the way. I took them out (4 of them) and it went in fine, but thats when I noticed the slow leak of fuel outside of Tearstone's adapter.

Are those pieces supposed to be in there? I don't recall if they came with the injectors after cleaning or not. And if so, are they supposed to push into the block so that the injectors can line up correctly?

Ithinkyou · 10/09/2009, 09:44 PM

Black o rings? Yeah, those insulators line the tips up into the manifold. Oil them up as well as the tips going into the fuel rail. Get em all lined up into the insulators then bolt the rail down. They shouldnt be obstucted. But without em, who knows. Youll prolly get fuel everywhere as soon as you crank it.

XwP1ayawX · 10/14/2009, 04:24 PM

Any updates? Im interested to see if this clears shit up for you

itz_tha_dre · 10/28/2009, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XwP1ayawX

Any updates? Im interested to see if this clears shit up for you

Hey guys.. sorry it's been awhile; been busy with random other shit.

So while my car is down, I decided to redo my vacuum lines and run it off the brake booster because the way I had it setup previously was retarded... lol.

Today I'm actually going to buy 1 other spark plug from advance auto(because when I was regapping one of them, I fcuked up the center copper piece somehow) and put them in my car. I gapped them at .28; previously my 7eix's were gapped at .30, so we'll see if that makes a difference.

If that doesn't work, I'll try to post the ROM and XML that I'm currently using and see if anyone can find something wrong with it.

itz_tha_dre · 10/28/2009, 08:59 PM

Ha, I don't know why I even bother to get my hopes up. Replaced spark plugs (gap at .28)and wires and I get knock while revving at 30+ counts still.

I'm thinking that maybe the Evo ecu I'm using is just to fucking sensitive with the knock sensor filters. I came across a DSM thread where 2nd gen eclipses were using the Evo Ecus as well and the guy was experiencing the same thing for no apparent reason. (Evo 8 Ecu In 2g Works!! - Page 18 - DSM Forums)

The only thing I don't get, is how EVERYONE else who uses an Evo ECU on this forum doesn't experience the same fucking shit I am.

I'll probably try switching ECU's again and use my stock 02' RS ecu and take it from there. Fuck this evo shit.

08/31/2009, 08:10 PM	#125 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	rom ok sent.. Have you touched ur knock sensor by the way.. Do me a favor and ur next log log the knock voltage also == Im curious as to see why u get so much knock.. my mods are big 16g at 16psi -- 0 knock 450ccs blue top eclipse injectors 190lph fuel pump evo rail and fpr

09/07/2009, 09:06 PM	#130 (permalink)
qnz Galant-Turbo Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: QueeNZ, NY Vehicle: 2003 Galant Posts: 252	maybe you have something rattling around your transmission? __________________

09/13/2009, 07:35 PM	#133 (permalink)
Ithinkyou Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cali Vehicle: 02 GS Posts: 1,488	I adjusted mine BARELY, only to get the afrs just that small bit closer __________________ 2002 GS 5spd, Wrx modded 440s Greddy Type-S Megan Racing Evo 8 Manifold Evo 9 turbine Invidia SS O2 Dump Custom 3" DP Catco 3" HFC Greddy EVO2 modded 3" Injen LICP Zietronix ZT2 Prosport boost fuel press. oil press. oil temp. EGT G-Speed CF hood, Tien S-techs, ADR fuel bronze 17" wheels, OLD - 2000 RS 5spd

09/15/2009, 04:25 PM	#141 (permalink)
Ithinkyou Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Cali Vehicle: 02 GS Posts: 1,488	its not just in light load its across the board so he can get tuned. Hes done a couple of things thus far but theyve only been bandaids. I think you should verify the belt is properly timed dre. __________________ 2002 GS 5spd, Wrx modded 440s Greddy Type-S Megan Racing Evo 8 Manifold Evo 9 turbine Invidia SS O2 Dump Custom 3" DP Catco 3" HFC Greddy EVO2 modded 3" Injen LICP Zietronix ZT2 Prosport boost fuel press. oil press. oil temp. EGT G-Speed CF hood, Tien S-techs, ADR fuel bronze 17" wheels, OLD - 2000 RS 5spd

09/19/2009, 03:14 PM	#151 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	they may not have the es line anymore last time i went they discoed the 7es thats why i said get the 7e instead but its not gapped. Last edited by johnsgalant; 09/19/2009 at 03:21 PM.

06/30/2009, 07:54 PM	#121 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	be careful with that knock control and make sure u r eliminating only false knock.. I get 2-3 on wot every now and again and thats acceptable even may up to 5-6 but if ur getting real knock down low u wont be protected so just make sure its ok... If the knock changes with timing it is probably real knock.. If u cannot get it to stop by lowering or raising timing then i would say its false..

08/30/2009, 10:38 PM	#122 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Well, just as an update, I still haven't gotten her tuned yet. Even with that knock control, it lessened the knock, but then it came back... but not as high. I took OFF the knock control and I'm "knocking" at 36 while not even in boost. Awesome stuff. I think I'll try to switch ROMs; maybe go back to the older 0014 or even the 0008 and see if it knocks as much. Maybe theres something with the 0015 ROM's knock filters that make it retarded sensitive, at least I hope. If this isn't the case, its back to square one; rescaling MAF/Latencies/Injectors, etc. Sigh, this is getting old quick. Is 250+ whp too much to ask for? I've been boosted for over 2 years now and am probably making less HP than I was NOT boosted. Sorry all, just venting. It's very discouraging when everything you do doesn't work.

08/31/2009, 07:43 PM	#123 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	u wanna try my rom?? ITs the 94170008 with knock cel flash --

08/31/2009, 07:45 PM	#124 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Sure if you don't mind. I'd like to compare each of them and find out which one would work best for me, because so far, I'm having no luck at all with 94170015. Theres actually a thread on the EvoM forums that evo owners are complaining about tip in knock with the 0015 rom but none with the 0014. At your convenience, send it to andrecast4@gmail.com. I really, really appreciate it. I just hope it works better than this one.

09/02/2009, 03:10 PM	#127 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	ok sent again....

09/05/2009, 03:54 PM	#128 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	So I've come through the conclusion (with the help of johnsgalant) that my car is going to knock all the time. I've tried the following things... Evo Ecu with the correct ROM this time (was previously using 94170015, but since it is an 05' Evo Ecu, I was supposed to be using 96530006, which I switched over to yesterday) Lessened timing as well, used correct (from what I know, might have to look over this AGAIN) latencies/scaling. Result - still knocks all over the place at 20+ counts under low and high load, no matter how much I changed the timing. Decided to try my stock 3g ecu (2002 RS Ecu) with the 94170015 ROM, with modified lowered timing, correct latencies/scalings, etc. Result - still getting 20 + counts of knock under both load conditions. Tried it with Johnsgalants ROM version 94170008; and lo and behold, SAME result. Now, to those of you who have not had any of these problems, I salute you, because this is beyond my comprehension. I sincerely thank all of you for trying to help me out, but I think this is a lost cause. My car simply does not like boost, AT ALL. I think I'm going to try to get her tuned by using the Knock Control that I posted awhile back; that's pretty much the only thing I can do. If that doesn't work, I have no idea what I'll do with this car. I'm banking on it working... haha, but with my luck, it probably won't. Keep you guys updated. Again, thanks to all of you for trying to help me out.

09/06/2009, 11:42 PM	#129 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	u sure u dont have anything rattling around in the engine bay?? Also you sure ur motor is working to specs ?? compression test? Just spitballing

09/08/2009, 09:15 AM	#131 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Hey guys, yeah I'm almost 100% that I don't have anything rattling, but I'll double check just to make sure. I started thinking that it might not be an ecu thing but a mechanical thing, but I'll have to look into it. I haven't done a compression test lately, and I'm thinking I should just to make sure. Thanks for the input.

09/13/2009, 07:15 PM	#132 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Have you guys properly scaled your MAF as well? I don't think mine ever was... I think it was still my stock MAF settings before turbo...

09/14/2009, 03:03 PM	#134 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	I started thinking and searching a bit, and came across a thread where someone mentioned that the timing in his car was off after he did a timing belt change, but his car didn't end up starting again. I actually got a timing belt change about a year ago, and I had to have my CPS sensor changed as well because of a problem with it. I'm thinking, that could it be possible my timing is slightly off, which is why any adjustment to the timing maps the tuner made didn't work, but made it worse? In order to check the timing again, I'd have to bring it to a mechanic and have him use a timing light, line up the cams, etc., correct? And how does this effect those maps in EcuFlash? Shouldn't the timing be corrected by the ECU anyways? I'm not too familiar with how that stuff works.

09/14/2009, 05:50 PM	#135 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	yea if ur timing is off u will have a power reduction possibly knock -- the computer cant compensate for that but it will either add to the advance or retard where you should be..

09/14/2009, 10:57 PM	#137 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	looking at your logs ur timing is low on idle -- it was 1 to 3 when it should be hovering around 5 ?????? Is your car still running in open loop or what?? Also did u get scan tech??? download that and see if ur car is entering closed loop -- it can tell u alot like ur using the wrong rom or a sensor issue.... how many roms have you tried?? Also were u running a 3g ecu or a evo ecu i forget??? what spark plugs are you running and what gap??

09/15/2009, 01:14 AM	#138 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	have you tryed advancing your timing? i had to in a couple places, i would pull it but it would stay the same of get worse.

09/15/2009, 12:06 PM	#140 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	Knock can occure from not enough timing too. Idk it eliminated knock in some cells under 100 load, i tryed pullin but it stayed the same so i advanced the time an it went away

09/16/2009, 09:53 AM	#142 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	First of all, I'd like to thank you guys (again) for trying to help me with this. As you can tell, I'm getting frustrated by it but looking at all your responses makes me want to figure it out even more. Okay, johnsgalant... car is now in CLOSED loop. I got ScanTech, but haven't gotten it working (for some reason it won't let me connect to the tactrix cable; I've tried to change it in the options but it wouldn't save them. I looked at it for like 2 min though so I'll have to do it again) -As for ROMS, I've tried yours, which is 94170008, then 94170014, 994170015, then I found out I was using the wrong ROM, so I went to 96530006. (this is all on the EVO Ecu) I tried 008, 0014, and 0015 on my 3g ECU, but the same results. As for plugs, they are NGK iridiums 7eix's, gapped at I think .24 or .28, whatever they come pre-gapped at. 2000RSTurbo - I haven't tried advancing it, but I have tried the stock EVO timing (which I know is really advanced) but to no avail; same issue. I'll try doing that to the cells where I have knock and see what happens just revving. How bad was your knock under 100 load? Mine is ridiculous. lol. One time I got 20+ counts at 20-30 load at 4 or 5 degrees timing. IN NEUTRAL. Ithinkyou - after I do scantech and verify sensors/roms, as well as try to go at my timing maps again, I think that is what I'll have to do. Its the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

09/16/2009, 09:17 PM	#143 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	how long have u had those plugs??? Try getting some ngk regular i think they are 7e or 7es... Gap them to .028... I would recommend at the time to do a quick compression test just to make sure.. Change those plugs and see if it improves. get anywhere in between .028 to .030.. for scantech -- on ur comp goto device manager and look under ports - find ur tactrix cable (u must have it connected for it to show up). Find the port its under usually 3 or 4 and goto scantech. Choose the jeff protocol in the settings and choose the port ur using. Connect - it should fail the first or second time but by the 2nd or third time it should connect and show you the vitals...

09/17/2009, 05:22 PM	#145 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	np -- dont worry bout those plugs just get the $7 bkr7e and gap them to .28 to rull out spark plug issues for now.. and then report back im tired of ur problem and im positive you are lol... we will look at this logically.. Try to do compression tests ASAP though and get plugs and swap em just to eliminate

09/17/2009, 08:34 PM	#146 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	you should get the 8es they come prgapped at .28 an are good up to 30psi i just got a set the work great. i dont remember exactly which cells they were but i was getting 5-6 knock so i retarded the timing 2 an i was geting like 6-8 knock in that same cell so i advanced it and it went away. can you feel the knock? my friend has a dsm we tuned his car then he went an turned up the boost to 26psi when it was tuned for 14psi, but you could feel the knock when we were driving it was 18-40 counts. if you reading that high an cant feel it i would say phantom knock

09/18/2009, 08:44 PM	#148 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	bkr7e part number 4644 at advance auto parts.....

09/19/2009, 12:14 AM	#149 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	nope but advanced looked them up for me so they should for u just say u need bkr8es or the 7es its up to u but i never liked regapping the plugs. The bkr8es cost the same an come pregapped already at .28 and are rated for up 30psi

09/19/2009, 02:52 PM	#150 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the bkr8es, because I don't like regapping plugs either. You're sure its bkr8es right? Because when I googled that part number and looked on sparkplugs.com, it said there wasn't one. I found a bkr8e, bkr8eix, bkr8e-11, but no bkr8eS. ALso, do you know what car these plugs are meant for? Thanks.

09/19/2009, 03:37 PM	#153 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	yea they are standard copper plugs -- u dont need iridium its a waste of money..

09/19/2009, 05:06 PM	#154 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	there all the same letters for both its the 7 or 8 that is the differnce, it must be the bkr8e

09/19/2009, 07:09 PM	#156 (permalink)
stgray22 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Jacksonville, NC Vehicle: 2000 Eclipse GS Turbo Posts: 512	the 7 and the 8 indicate heat range. factory heat range for our cars is 5, so 7 is two ranges colder, 8 is three ranges colder. i run the bkr7eix pre-gapped at .30 and have no problems at all with spark.

09/19/2009, 09:56 PM	#157 (permalink)
2000RS-Turbo Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Springfield MA Posts: 939	i feel like a idiot... there bkr8eix, i was cleaning out my car an found the box

09/24/2009, 05:13 PM	#158 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	Still waiting for my other spark plugs to come in tomorrow, but I took out the ones that were in the car. Heres a picture of them... The 3rd one from the left looks a lot lighter than the other ones... what does this mean?

09/24/2009, 05:22 PM	#159 (permalink)
stgray22 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Jacksonville, NC Vehicle: 2000 Eclipse GS Turbo Posts: 512	when they are black, it means you are running rich. maybe the cylinder that the 3rd came from isnt getting enough fuel? would explain why the knock isnt improving.

09/24/2009, 06:34 PM	#161 (permalink)
johnsgalant Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 249	maybe its not gapped correctly thats why i said to get new plugs to make sure.. Those plugs look ok. Maybe that injector is not not in synch... Anyway new plugs will eliminate or try to eliminate the plugs as the problem.. There is a dude on evom that figured out how to tell what cylinder is knocking with some code he wrote so if nothing improves ur issue then maybe that will tell u whats going on also..

09/26/2009, 03:00 PM	#163 (permalink)
itz_tha_dre Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Jersey Vehicle: 2002 RS Eclipse Posts: 264	So... I decided to get my injectors flow tested to make sure everything is okay, as well as check the wiring on my injector clips because I know they weren't soldered together, which I was planning on doing. I'm taking apart the electrical tape, and looking at the injector clips and how they're wired. When looking at the clip, with the metal piece facing upwards, I notice that the right wire is the power wire that goes to the RED wire. This held true for THREE of the injector clips, the LAST clip, (the one all the way to the right of the motor when facing the car) was wired OPPOSITELY. I thought... WOW. That would explain a whole hell of a lot of things. My main concern is, I've been running the car like this for 2 years!!!! What kind of damage can I expect? I mean, if the car has been opening 3 of the injectors and closing the 4th one this whole time, what could happen? I guess I'll have to get a compression test on that cylinder and hope for the best. But yeah, I'm surprised as hell.

09/26/2009, 07:33 PM	#164 (permalink)
FlashBlueRS Zero Resistance, LLC Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Vehicle: 02 DOHC Eclipse RS Posts: 1,877	The polarity of the injectors doesn't matter. The wires can be swapped without any issues.