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Old 11/05/2007, 06:07 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation 10 Steps to Better Handling / Suspension Options, Opinions and Cost Breakdown

MCMike 37 EDIT :

This is a basic starting thread on suspension work/information. The Suspension Options is further down the page.

Please use this only as a starting point for your entrance into the suspension world. Read this and the rest of the threads stuck at the top of this forum, and more importantly, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH by using the "Search This Forum" option at the top right menu bar of the sub-forum.

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You can have the best car in the world, but its worthless if it's surrounded by mushy shocks, crappy tires, and a wonky alignment. Listed below are 10 steps to achieving better handling out of your 3G and just about any other car for that matter. We will start with a totally bone stock car and increase the handling with 10 different parts.

Now bolting on a set of full blown coilovers and fabricating a roll cage would be ideal, but most of us like to drive our cars everyday and have them still feel comfortable. So keep in mind that this list is for those who want streetability and also something that will outhandle on the track.

All data was taken on a closed autocross style course.

Step 1: Bone Stock
Baseline Run time: 33.949 seconds
Change: 0 seconds
Cost: $$$ of car

Starting off with a stock car will let you know how the car handles from the factory. You can find the strong points of the OEM suspension and tires, and the low points. For the 3G being a FWD car and poses a lot of understeer from the factory.

Step 2: Increased air pressure
Time: 33.193 seconds
Change: 0.756 second improvement
Cost: Free

One of the best and cheapest things to do is to change your tire pressures. All it takes is a pump and a little bit of watching the side wall rub to know where your pressures need to be set at. During autocrossing I have found the best combo for me is 42psi in the front and 28.5 in the rear. Everycar is different and every driver drives different. This is something that everyone should play with to find a happy median. *Note* do not drive on these pressures for everyday driving, your tires will wear out extremely quick.

Step 3: Performed Alignment
Time: 32.789 seconds
Change: 0.404 second improvement
Cost: $74.99

Most cars are built anymore with lasers, robots, and other out of this world machines. One thing that is neglected is the alignment from the factory. Some cars are found out of spec right off the trailer. Its amazing the improvement in a car when you get the tires pointed in the right direction. Standard places charge 75 bucks for an alignment.

Step 4: Upsized the wheels
Time: 32.871 seconds
Change: 0.082 second loss
Cost: $1000 or more

Generally speaking, the advantages of a plus size setup include crisper handling as well as the option of running larger brakes. The down side is an increase in rotational mass and also increased vibration and harshness felt from the road. Lap times did not improve, it took less effort to get the car around the course. A lot of slop was removed with the plus size wheel and tire setup. I found that the 17 inch size is a good size for the 3G and the only upgrade I did was to find a lighter wheel. For reference, the stock 3G GT wheel weights in at 23-25 lbs, depending on who you talk to. Find something around 15-17 lbs if you can. Every pound counts when it comes to rotational mass.

Step 5: Upgraded the tires
Time: 31.882 seconds
Change: 0.989 second improvement
Cost: $105 a tire

Larger tires are good, but sticker tires are better. Increasing the performance of the tire along with the contact path is a great improvement. I prefer the Falken Azenis RT-615, but other tires such as the Potenza RE-01R or the new Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 or the Kuhmo Ecsta MX are at the top of the pack when it comes to an extreme summer street tire. Yes you could buy a Hoosier DOT tire, but you really wants to try and drive on those on the streets. A extreme summer street tire is the best of both worlds. Great grip, great looks, frugal, and it works for the street and the track. One can gain a lot of time with a good set of summer tires, as shown by the improvement in time.

Step 6: Added thicker anti-roll bar
Time: 31.362 seconds
Change: 0.520 second improvement
Cost: $160 for the rear sway bar, $40 for new endlinks

With all the previous mods done, it can be noticed that the 3G still has a lot of body roll. Body roll is noted as a load transfer that allows the tire's contact patch to become inconstant through a turn. A thicker anti-roll bar can improve handling without making the ride any stiffer. Its basically a win win situation. The car is still slow to respond due to the stock shocks/springs, but its much easier to get the car to the correct apex. Suspension Techniques make a great rear sway bar for our cars. As of the time of this test, there are no aftermarket endlinks made for the 3G platform. The OEM ones work fine.

Step 7: Dialed in more camber
Time: 31.300 seconds
Change: 0.062 second improvement
Cost: $74.99-$350

Checking the tire temperatures on the inside, middle, and outside show that our stock camber set points are not ideal. The OEM specs yield a 15 degree temperature difference than on the outside. To correct this situation, we need to add some negative camber. As said before standard places will charge around $75 for an alignment, but most places will not add negative camber to a car. Race shops will perform an alignment to your specs, but good race shops charge a pretty penny. If your just the average driver, then Sears is fine for you, but if your looking for more, go to a nice race shop and get it done professionally. Camber bolts are a must, Ingalls makes a great kit for both the front and rear of the 3G. It is possible to achieve up to -2 degrees with the Ingalls kit. I have found the best alignment for my car to be -2 degrees in the front and -2 degress in the rear. Also the toe is set at 1/4" toe out and caster is a 1/4" in. *Note* again, if you drive a lot, my settings will increase tire wear. Time savings arent great, but the crispness once again was increased.

Step 8: Upgraded springs and shocks
Time: 31.244 seconds
Change: 0.056 second improvement
Cost: $250 for springs, $400 for Struts

By this point, we have gained about 2.5 seconds from our improvements. The car is still feeling to soft as the chasis pitched and dived a bit drastically. At this point, the springs/struts are the weak link. Just to review, the springs support the car's weight, while the struts essentially control the movement of those springs. The stock OEM springs were allowing the body to pitch to much, while the OEM struts were allowing those movements to happen to quickly. A proven setup for the 3G is the Eibach Pro-kit/KYB AGX combo used by many. The Eibach springs lower the center of gravity while increasing the spring rate. The KYB AGX struts are adjustable and provide spring control. It is more realisitc to upgrade both at the same time. Why do a job twice. Times did not improve that much, but it is a lot easier to drive the car at the "limit". With this improvement, it uncovered another issue, our contact patch needed something. Wider wheels and tires will help.

Step 9: Wider Wheels and tires
Time: 30.788 seconds
Change: 0.456 second improvement
Cost: $1000+

Why do we care about a bigger contact patch? Easy, a short, wide contact patch provides better grip through the turns. I have found that a 225/45/17 and even a 235/40/17 tire works great. With such a wide tire, you need to upgrade your wheels also. I have found that a 7.5" wide wheel works great for both the 225 and the 235 series tire. An 8" wide wheel would also work. Dont forget to keep in mind the weight of the wider wheel. Remember ROTATIONAL MASS!!! Bigger wheels/tires made the car feel a little slower in the course, but the lap times don't lie. A drop of 1/2 second is a huge savings on a 30 second course.

Step 10: Added strut bars
Time: 30.832 seconds
Change: 0.044 second loss
Cost: $69

The main function of the strut bars is to tie together the tops of the strut housings. One bar handles the two front struts, while the other takes care of the rears. The theory is "boxing" them in increases chassis rigidity and pays off in a faster car. Road Race Engineering makes a great bar, for a very good price and the install is easy. This by far is the best bang for your buck when it comes to strut bars. The stock OEM GT bar is great for the front end. DO NOT CHANGE A THING. While the theory is great, the lap times did not improve. The cars rigidity did improve none the less.

TAKEAWAYS:
Whether your commuting to work/school or carivng up your favorite race track, we all want our 3G's to handle well-file better handling under both performance and safety, as it's easier to avoid a collision when driving a car that perfectly reacts to the driver's every thought.

The good news is that the aftermarket for the 3G and other cars is great. Sometimes its hard to know where to start however. Having a good plan versus just throwing parts onto the car is key. It will not only save you money, but also make your driving experience better. In this case, a handful of common upgrades-some of which were totally free-helped drop our lap times by more than 10 percent.

These steps help change a 3200 pound 3G into a very fun, competent, consistent, dialed in car thats a joy to autocross/roadrace and also drive everyday.

Remember to have fun when you are modding your car. Also keep the racing on the track, where safety people are in place to make sure you have a safe and fun experience.

Kevin (CLIPSE_GT) is not liable for anything that may happen as a result of these steps unless it puts a smile on face.
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Old 11/05/2007, 10:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CLIPSE_GT View Post
Step 9: Wider Wheels and tires
Time: 30.788 seconds
Change: 0.456 second improvement
Cost: $1000+

Why do we care about a bigger contact patch? Easy, a short, wide contact patch provides better grip through the turns.
I just have 1 problem with your 10 steps and its this one. A wider tire does not give you a larger contact patch. You remember that Area=Pressure(tire pressure)/Force(corner vehicle weight). The tire pressure and vehicle weight on that tire will be the same (assuming you are just comparing different tire sizes). The wider tires will give you a longer/wider, shorter contact patch essentually making the contact patch more elliptical/circular.

I have not found a complete answer on wheter this altered contact patch helps or hurts performance. I would assume a contact patch such as that on the rear tires of an F1 car would be ideal since the tire would have to deform laterally to affect the handling. I also have came to think that the wider contact patch will give you more 'grip' until you get no grip at all. While I cannot say you are completely wrong in what you believe is to be true, I don't think you can say that a wider tire will give a bigger contact patch because it doesn't really.
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Old 11/05/2007, 11:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I just have 1 problem with your 10 steps and its this one. A wider tire does not give you a larger contact patch. You remember that Area=Pressure(tire pressure)/Force(corner vehicle weight). The tire pressure and vehicle weight on that tire will be the same (assuming you are just comparing different tire sizes). The wider tires will give you a longer/wider, shorter contact patch essentually making the contact patch more elliptical/circular.

I have not found a complete answer on wheter this altered contact patch helps or hurts performance. I would assume a contact patch such as that on the rear tires of an F1 car would be ideal since the tire would have to deform laterally to affect the handling. I also have came to think that the wider contact patch will give you more 'grip' until you get no grip at all. While I cannot say you are completely wrong in what you believe is to be true, I don't think you can say that a wider tire will give a bigger contact patch because it doesn't really.
Well why do most supercars have super wide rear tires? This is just a question. I do not know the answer either. It just would make since that a wider tire would mean that you are putting more rubber in contact with the pavement making the car more stable.
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Old 11/06/2007, 06:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The question came up regarding a wider shorter contact patch. This creates a bigger contact patch by providing more width. An autocross, or roadrace contact patch is completely different than a dragrace contact patch. You want to achieve a contact patch that allows the tire to sit up on the ball (center) of the tire during straight line driving, and then transfer the weight of the car to the sides during apexing. If you have a wider tire, during an apex you will have a greater contact patch to help you dive into the turn, and then accelerate out of the turn.

Dave your thinking way to theoretical, why dont you go out an actually apply the engineering your learning.
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Old 11/14/2007, 07:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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First, GREAT post. Second, I have a question. Am I correct in assuming that you did not undo the previous step to give a compared to stock time with just that current step. Thats horribly awkward-let me try again. Did you revert to stock each time you modified something in order to get the time? Or did you successively add on the modifications without seeing how much of an impact just that one step would have on a stock vehicle?
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Old 11/14/2007, 09:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Although Im going to contest the timing on the Auto X (just cause whenever I run I damn near always run faster with each run) But adding my Evo Recaro seat helped out a bunch, as well as driving gloves, and using as little fuel as possible. And a trick to see how much tire pressure you should use is go to your local tire center and ask for a used piece of tire chalk. Draw a line from your rim to the main tread of your tire. By doing this you will be able to more accurately determine on whether or not you should raise the tire pressure or lower it. It rubs off fairly easily and allows you to see how much rub is actually going on VS seeing the scuffing on the sidewall which can be hard to see. Remember you will almost NEVER run the same tire pressure in the rear as you do in the front.
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Old 02/05/2010, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Exclamation Suspension options, opinions and pricing. Cost breakdowns included.

First off let me state i have been using these forums for over 2 years and have read most of the major articles and stickys when i did my own projects. I found a lot of good information but sometimes biased opinions of people who try to modify anything with ebay or other cheap parts. As a owner of 7 now 3g eclipses and having run a shop for 9 years i have a lot of firsthand experience and customer feedback getting it done on the cheap and not so much. Heres the questions i see frequently asked.

EBAY ADJUSTABLE SPRINGS
Q. Can i use those cheap $15 ebay adjustable springs to lower my car.

A. YES... yes you can. Will it perform as well as a set of Megan coilovers.... of course not. Are you handy with tools and dont mind following a online walkthrough to do it yourself? If your going to spend $15 on ebay springs dont think a shop will install it for you cheaply your sadly mistaken. Youll find quotes anywhere from $360 for 4 wheels at a midas to $143 a wheel at the dealerships. Now you really have to ask yourself if you can do this install yourself or get friends to help. Granted its not that hard but if your a moron when it comes to auto repair i really wouldnt try. And what do you get for you hard work? yes you can drop it 0-4 inches or more yourself and besides your time you only spend 15 bucks. How does it handle after? Terrible. Worst then stock obviously. But then if your budget for lowering your car is only $15 you probably didnt have super high expectations. At least wipe the shaft off off the shock/strut when its fully extended to alleviate some wear. Yes your shocks/struts will wear out sooner but no it isnt like 3 days unless they were already far gone. You will need an alignment unless you dont care about tires either and that will tun you $60+. More depending on the drop anything and over 1.5" will need a rear and suggested front aligh kit. Yes i have driven a 3g around with those ebay springs and its drivable but not much fun.

Price breakdown
adjustable springs $15-50 ebay
self install FREE
alignment $60+
shop install $360+ including align
+ is based on lever of drop ie 1.5"+ needs rear and front align kit +$100
ride quality 4/10 worse then stock



AFTERMARKET LOWERING SPRINGS
Q. What if i have 60-200 to spend on springs?

A. Well your in a better place but you still have to consider the install price. Are you doing this yourself? If not your still dropping $360 or more on install so maybe you should rethink this package. Yes the einbachs arent bad, neither are then teins and ebay has a bunch of nobrand ones also. Your looking for progressive coiling really. you can check the spring rates against major brands to consider a cheaper alternative. I have personally used tensai megans eibachs and teins. They are pretty much the same except the eibachs take longer to settle and the teins feel a little better. Yes you can use any of those with your stock shocks/struts. You stockers will wear faster of course. If your doing it yourself and dont mind replacing shocks at another time then sure why not go for it. After all your labor is free right. Of course still anything over 1.5" needs an alignment if you like your tires to last.

Price breakdown
Tensai springs $60 Ebay
Megan springs $100 Ebay
Tein s springs $140 Ebay
Eibachs $220 Tirerack.com
self install FREE
alignment $60+
shop install $360+ including align at Midas
+ is based on lever of drop ie 1.5"+ needs rear and front align kit +$100
ride quality 6/10 better then stock



AFTERMARKET SHOCKS/STRUTS
Q. Ok so im willing to pay more then $15 on springs what shocks can i use besides stock?

A. Well Kyb makes a GR-2 line thats cheaper then the AGX your talking about $430+ for the AGX and $290 for the GR-2. Sure you can use the GR-2 or the Monroe sensatrac or the Gabriel. but the AGX is far superior because it has adjustability, but you can save yourself some cash you just have to ask yourself is it worth it. Any of the other choices will work but at this point your budgeting $360+ doing it yourself against dropping another $140 for adjustability with the AGX. Will you use adjustability every day? No....but once dialed in right it is a much better setup. As far as comparing them the GR-2s are better then your stock, the Gabriels and the Monroes. There is also Koni's but i leave those out because the ride is similiar to AGX's (which im sure people will argue) but with twice the headache of install and tokikos which are only rears. Also to note while replacing shocks/struts you may or may not need to replace the mounts and boots which could easily put you to an additional $150+ in cost depending on the condition of your stock setup.

Price breakdown
GR-2's $292 Tirerack.com
AGX's $432 Tirerack.com
Gabriel's $380 Autozone
Monroe's $330 Midas
self install FREE
alignment $60+
shop install $360+ including align at Midas
+ is based on lever of drop ie 1.5"+ needs rear and front align kit +$100
ride quality 7-8 GR-2-AGX


COILOVERS
Q. Ok i realize how much this is going to cost me now because i wont be happy with stock or less handling and im considering the AGX with some Eibachs like everyone else seems to do are there any more choices?

A. Yes now youve come to the place i always seem to end up at. Coilovers.
Coilovers are the conplete package all in one and a far superior ride to any agx/spring setup if installed correctly. They are also far easier to install and so much less hassle with so much more adjustability. That being said coilovers are gonna run you $650+ to start for the NEX's on ebay. but comparing that with a agx/eibach setup your spending about the same and you still have 4 way adjustability of the shock body with the GT but with an adjustable spring to choose your level of drop between 1.5"-2.5". So why doesnt everyone buy coilovers instead of the AGX/Eibach setup? People look at the cost and think it will be more expensive. Sometimes the AGX setup can run you upwards of 900 for a self install if the stock equipment is deteriorating. But Mainly its the name. People have heard good things about the AGX/Eibach setup. People follow people. I have personally used the NEX gt set and its a better ride then the agx/eibach setup. Now compared to a Megan or Tein set its inferior but those are more expensive. I have 2 eclipses currently running the NEX setup one with over 40k miles and harsh driving and it still handles perfectly. That being said i Prefer the Megan coilovers over all the others including the Tein SS. So once again your at that cost comparison for what you want. I have also driven the D2's Ksports KWs and JICs. Megans feel the best to me for my driving style. Id say the JIC's and Tein SS are tied for second. I personally have a very agressive driving style and the megans hold that bite better then the rest. My opinion for best cost vs quality is by far the Megans but dont let that sway you from running NEX if your on a budget.

Price breakdown
NEX SS nonadjustable coilover $650 Ebay
NEX gt 4way coilover $750 Ebay
Megan coilover $900 Wesellcarparts.com
Tein basic nonadjust $954 Wesellcarparts.com
Tein ss $1330 Wesellcarparts.com
D2 $1230 Andys Auto Sports
KW $2150 Andys Auto Sports
JIC $1710 Andys Auto Sports
self install FREE
alignment $60+
shop install $360+ including align at Midas
+ is based on lever of drop ie 1.5"+ needs rear and front align kit +$100 unless the coilovers have align on the mount like some of them do.
ride quality 9-10 NEX-Megan


All my opinions are compared on 3g gs eclipses running the same tire size/rim weight and tire brand/type to be unbiased. Your suspension is only as good as the tire that grips that road and lighter the rim the better. I could go into detail all day maybe Ill write another post on tire comparisons but for now if you have a question feel free to ask. I run Enkei 18" rims at 16 lbs with yokohama parada spec 2's on all my eclipses now. I have had probably 12 different rim sets and at least double that many tires before i found that the parada spec 2's are the best setup for the eclipse. Its just another thing to consider once youve gotten those stock tire and rims off to do those struts. Other things to consider for better suspension are your stock bushings replaced to prothanes or energy's and adding or replacing with thicker upper strut bars/tie bars/sway bar/adjustable endlinks. Megan makes most of those. If you need pricing or info on any of those things i can tell you where to get it all. Pm me anytime. I realize some people will take this post as an opportunity to complain and be negative because they have nothing better to do. To those people who want to have a pissing contest i wont even bother to reply.
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Old 02/05/2010, 10:41 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 02/05/2010, 10:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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less then half of this information is posted anywhere and even then its not together in one post. all this information is firsthand not copied and pasted.

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Old 02/06/2010, 02:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Wow, this is really informative. I'm already saving up for Megan Coilovers and I often wondered if I should just go ahead and get a spring/strut combo or look into teins. Well, at wesellcarparts.com with 3gdiscount megans vs. AGX+EIBACH+shop install, this pretty much sealed the deal for me further. Good post
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Old 02/06/2010, 03:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Nice post; concise, clear, and informative. You are probably going to get some flack about your tire recommendation, I always did. Most of the time it’s pretty hard to get a general consensus on something as subjective as what is the perfect tire, considering the climate and conditions across our continent.
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Old 02/06/2010, 08:58 AM   #12 (permalink)
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less then half of this information is posted anywhere and even then its not together in one post. all this information is firsthand not copied and pasted.
Agreed on both points. I am going to combine this with one of the sticky's at the top to provide a better "first look" for people researching suspension and ways to make it better. While this is in no way a definitive guide, it's at least a starting point.

That being said, I would also like to add that anyone reading these posts needs to do much more then just reading these few posts and really do their research. Dropping with springs only on stock struts is not an advisable step in most people's eyes due to the increased stress on stock parts that they were never designed to cope with.

Also, the coilover option is much more detailed then the post eludes. Spring rates are a very important part of the equation that is not even mentioned. And if you are only getting a $60 alignment on an upgrade of this nature, you are wasting your money on the coilovers. You need someone that not only knows this car, but suspension in general to really dial in the coilovers to a specific application, wheels, and personal driving style. For example, I personally have JIC's that have been modified by John Muller and they are currently completely redialing in the suspension at the moment. Cost? I budgeted 500 bucks for the suspension work. If you are spending money on coilovers and want handling, you have to also look at things like suspension bushings, sway/strut bar install/upgrades, etc.

Again, my personal recommendations for anyone starting off is a KYB/AGX or something of that nature. If you plan on going further, I would go with the adjustable, so you can research firsthand what the different settings will do to handling and drivability. Then work on the parts I mentioned above before even considering coilovers and everything that goes with that.

The most important part to take out of this thread is to DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!! Do not take any of this information and act on it blindly.

Ok, soapbox dismounted now.
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Old 02/06/2010, 10:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Nice post; concise, clear, and informative. You are probably going to get some flack about your tire recommendation, I always did. Most of the time itís pretty hard to get a general consensus on something as subjective as what is the perfect tire, considering the climate and conditions across our continent.
Your correct in my southern cali weather thinking i totally left out anyone driving in less the favorable conditions. The specs are a summer tire and as such suffer poorly in harsher weather but they do handle rain well. im sure theres people out there who have tried the specs and didnt like something about them just as in any tire. Personally for me they are a night and day difference over anything else but anyone considering them should feel free to find more reviews. Tirerack is a great place for that. Thank you for pointing out my oversight.
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Old 02/06/2010, 11:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Agree and disagree

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Again, my personal recommendations for anyone starting off is a KYB/AGX or something of that nature. If you plan on going further, I would go with the adjustable, so you can research firsthand what the different settings will do to handling and drivability. Then work on the parts I mentioned above before even considering coilovers and everything that goes with that.

The most important part to take out of this thread is to DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!! Do not take any of this information and act on it blindly.

Ok, soapbox dismounted now.
Agreed on the do your own research but disagreed on starting with agx. I cant tell you how many customers have tried the agx and then paid out labor and cost again to switch to coilovers. Granted you need to weigh your suspension options vs your budget but search these forums and see how many people on here are posting with "ok so i currently have agx/einbach setup and i want to go coilover now etc". Im not saying youll be dissapointed with them yourself but if you have a friend with a set of dialed coilovers and a friend with agx's maybe take a drive in each. Consider this if the cost is nearly the same why shell it out twice 6 months from now when your not as impressed with the agx setup anymore or you want to raise/lower your drop. The coilovers give you an adjustable drop so if you happen to go eiback sportlines and find you bottom out too much your going to have to pay the labor and cost of springs all over again when you could have dropped a little extra cash now and been able to change anything anytime. Yes theres dropzones out there but i have never had anyone happy with them and the cost is such that you might as well go coilover again. Im sure some people are content with their dropzones if you are really sold on the agx setup but research it before you make a decision. Another thing of note is i say $60+ for alignment because its all subjective to the skill pricing and drop. Yes you can spend $500+ on dialing in your suspension. Yes you can get the dealer to install and dial it for about that and theyll go with proper factory specs for camber etc. But its all in the installers skill. Not every dealership or midas or any shop is never the same. Find someone you trust and dont be afraid to negotiate. Even better watch them do the install and ask some questions so next time you can try it yourself if you want. If you go coilover chances are youll have more options in the long run and thats what makes it cost effective now. But please always research more then my opinion go buy a mitsu mechanic a beer or ask a local tuner about his setup.
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Old 04/09/2010, 02:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by aeolisio View Post
Agreed on the do your own research but disagreed on starting with agx. I cant tell you how many customers have tried the agx and then paid out labor and cost again to switch to coilovers. Granted you need to weigh your suspension options vs your budget but search these forums and see how many people on here are posting with "ok so i currently have agx/einbach setup and i want to go coilover now etc". Im not saying youll be dissapointed with them yourself but if you have a friend with a set of dialed coilovers and a friend with agx's maybe take a drive in each. Consider this if the cost is nearly the same why shell it out twice 6 months from now when your not as impressed with the agx setup anymore or you want to raise/lower your drop. The coilovers give you an adjustable drop so if you happen to go eiback sportlines and find you bottom out too much your going to have to pay the labor and cost of springs all over again when you could have dropped a little extra cash now and been able to change anything anytime. Yes theres dropzones out there but i have never had anyone happy with them and the cost is such that you might as well go coilover again. Im sure some people are content with their dropzones if you are really sold on the agx setup but research it before you make a decision. Another thing of note is i say $60+ for alignment because its all subjective to the skill pricing and drop. Yes you can spend $500+ on dialing in your suspension. Yes you can get the dealer to install and dial it for about that and theyll go with proper factory specs for camber etc. But its all in the installers skill. Not every dealership or midas or any shop is never the same. Find someone you trust and dont be afraid to negotiate. Even better watch them do the install and ask some questions so next time you can try it yourself if you want. If you go coilover chances are youll have more options in the long run and thats what makes it cost effective now. But please always research more then my opinion go buy a mitsu mechanic a beer or ask a local tuner about his setup.
i owned my agx + spring combo for about 3 months and wish i just bought coilovers from the beginning. At least they have a good resale value on the forum. Megan's, here i come
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Old 04/09/2010, 08:27 AM   #16 (permalink)
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will 95-99 awd coil over struts work on our 3g's? Sway bars? this 2g stuff is so much easier to find that 3g stuff.

Last edited by tdevriesgb; 04/10/2010 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 07/07/2010, 09:38 PM   #17 (permalink)
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well since i did my suspencion right my car handles like a formula car i got lower tie bars suspenciontechnics sway bar upper front and rear strut bars and what made the difference Ksport control pro fully adjustable coilovers thos things are amazing thats the best set up (personaly)for the track road highway !!!!
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Old 08/29/2010, 09:55 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I don't know if this is covered somewhere else but how much do them steel brake lines help along with the drilled&slotted rotors?
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Old 08/29/2010, 10:05 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't know if this is covered somewhere else but how much do them steel brake lines help along with the drilled&slotted rotors?
There's a way to find out...it's called the "Magic Investigatory Button of Enlightenment", or "Search" for short.
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Old 08/29/2010, 11:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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i just noticed this:
Quote:
As of the time of this test, there are no aftermarket endlinks made for the 3G platform. The OEM ones work fine.
i would like to recommend mentioning the Moog endlinks as a very recommended upgrade. they are about twice as thick (i would think that is pretty beneficial on those foot long monsters we use up front), are easier to install/remove (no stripped out allen wrench crap, just a socket and a regular wrench), and have grease fittings, for easy maintenance. they are more expensive, but not to point of breaking the bank. (well maybe for some people...)
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Old 08/30/2010, 05:53 AM   #21 (permalink)
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i just noticed this:

i would like to recommend mentioning the Moog endlinks as a very recommended upgrade. they are about twice as thick (i would think that is pretty beneficial on those foot long monsters we use up front), are easier to install/remove (no stripped out allen wrench crap, just a socket and a regular wrench), and have grease fittings, for easy maintenance. they are more expensive, but not to point of breaking the bank. (well maybe for some people...)
I would also like to add to this as another option. The sti front end links from pre 08 models fit on the rear if our cars
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Old 09/05/2010, 11:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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For all you guys running coil overs, are you really going through the process of revalving the compression and rebound for a DD or are these all full race applications you guys are discussing ?

On my race car we probably a few hundred hours invested in just shock valving and I would prefer to not spend that sort of time dialing in the wires ride.

Those saying to get the coil overs instead of the KGB setup. What valving would you change to make the kyb perform better ?

I have been searching for a shock Dyno cart on the kyb setup but as yet have not found one. Anybody care to share a link ?


I am researching suspension for the wifes spyder which is her DD, fortunately for her, the commute includes 6 miles of some of nor-cals best twisty canyons.
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Old 09/05/2010, 11:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Also, if anybody has a link or knows the spring rate for the stock and available aftermarket springs I would appreciate the info.

Thanks

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Old 09/06/2010, 03:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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For all you guys running coil overs, are you really going through the process of revalving the compression and rebound for a DD or are these all full race applications you guys are discussing ?
Can't speak for everyone, but mine have been completely rebuilt, inside and out with new parts and springs. If someone was to buy what I have and have the same work done, the amount of money invested in just the coilovers is more then what my car is worth. It is currently a daily driver, but the suspension was built in mind for this car to be a full up race car. He set it up aggressively for the street, but not close to it's full potential until he trusts me as a driver.

Quote:
On my race car we probably a few hundred hours invested in just shock valving and I would prefer to not spend that sort of time dialing in the wires ride.
While he didn't spend 100s of hours on just my car, he has done suspensions for probably longer then I have been alive and has a very good resume as far as people winning races with his work and coming to him fro across the country just for him.
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Old 09/06/2010, 08:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I may update the first post, I may not. This is really just a starting point but a few people bring up a good bit of information.
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Old 09/06/2010, 08:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Also, if anybody has a link or knows the spring rate for the stock and available aftermarket springs I would appreciate the info.
Editing my post... I'd said run a search and you'll find a table of everything, and I'm sure that's true, but after a quick look I didn't see it. Give it a shot, and check chronologically from the oldest to today. It was written up in 2004 or earlier.

IIRC stocks are in the neighborhood of 180 F and 160 R, aftermarkets go as high as 220 / 200. Nothing very stiff. Don't trust my #'s though, it's been a while. Search and you'll eventually come across a table of data.
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Old 09/07/2010, 06:44 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Editing my post... I'd said run a search and you'll find a table of everything, and I'm sure that's true, but after a quick look I didn't see it. Give it a shot, and check chronologically from the oldest to today. It was written up in 2004 or earlier.

IIRC stocks are in the neighborhood of 180 F and 160 R, aftermarkets go as high as 220 / 200. Nothing very stiff. Don't trust my #'s though, it's been a while. Search and you'll eventually come across a table of data.
If I find the table I will add it to my original post.
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Old 09/07/2010, 08:31 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I would also like to add to this as another option. The sti front end links from pre 08 models fit on the rear if our cars
Are you refering to the KLC38/39 series?
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Old 05/08/2012, 09:27 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I have an 01 eclipse and I'm just looking for replacements for the stock struts/springs because they are wearing out. I don't want to change the angles of the suspension. I'm trying to find prices like on completestruts.com- basically I want to get the front two assemblies for less than 200 bucks. What's the best 'budget/cheap' brand to get just to restore the car? I don't think Monroe carries the complete strut assemblies for the 01 eclipse.
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Old 05/08/2012, 11:17 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Kyb replacements.
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Old 03/23/2016, 08:41 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Special_K View Post
MCMike 37 EDIT :

Step 10: Added strut bars
Time: 30.832 seconds
Change: 0.044 second loss
Cost: $69

The main function of the strut bars is to tie together the tops of the strut housings. One bar handles the two front struts, while the other takes care of the rears. The theory is "boxing" them in increases chassis rigidity and pays off in a faster car. Road Race Engineering makes a great bar, for a very good price and the install is easy. This by far is the best bang for your buck when it comes to strut bars. The stock OEM GT bar is great for the front end. DO NOT CHANGE A THING. While the theory is great, the lap times did not improve. The cars rigidity did improve none the less
Does the RS and GS have the GT strut bar? or should we replace it aswell?
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Old 03/23/2016, 09:23 AM   #32 (permalink)
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If it was there at all to start with it should be the same. Same mounting points and etc.
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