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2004 Eclipse Spyder GS
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My buddy's been driving my 3g while I'm out of state, and it started making what he described as a "chuffing" noise, so i told him to take it to a shop and get it figured out. Turns out the timing belt was going, so I was like, "Have 'em quote for doing the full kit and send it to me."

So he sends me the quote along with their "60+ point inspection report." The inspection is bogus. They've got a dozen things listed as "major faults." Then I look at the quote for doing the timing kit and a coolant flush. $2400 with a Parts cost of $750! I'm like, Whoa, not even Napa overcharges that much for the timing kit! Then I look at the coolant flush charge and (along with being 3x more expensive than it should be) it specifies green IAT coolant!

So I call the shop to try to clear things up. I start by telling the guy that the Eclipse engines are from the DSM coalition and they use Dexcool, not plain green, so if we're doing a coolant flush it needs to be Dex, and that I want to see the itemized invoice so I know what I'm paying for, because it's a $250 kit, not $750.

And dude decided to throw himself a little hissy fit! He says he's been in business since the 50's and has fixed hundreds of cars, so he knows what he's doing. All antifreeze is the same, but he can tint it purple if it makes the customer happy and none of the silly brand names mean anything except a price hike by the manufacturer. Then he said his price is his price, he's never itemized an invoice and nobody's ever had a problem with that. But if I want to question his knowledge and his methods, he won't work on my car and I can tow it to another shop!

So I called my buddy and told him to just get it towed back to the house and I'll order the damn kit and fly home to fix it! He sets up the tow, and an hour later gets a call from the actual owner of the shop apologizing for his head mechanic!

The owner says that they've already put on a new timing belt, won't do the full kit, and one of the apprentices is putting the engine bay back together so my buddy can come pick it up in the morning. Total cost for the inspection, belt, and gasket will be $600.

So, points to the shop for having a decent owner, but I'm gonna be telling folks never to take their cars there because their procedures suck, they overcharges, and the head mechanic is a true POS!
 

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2001 Spyder GT. Koni adj.shocks. CAI, ST swaybar.17X8.5 rims. LED lighting.
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860 Posts
I will not debate the coolant issue. As far as the mechanic goes, $2400 to change a timing belt is abusive. Anyone that runs a business dealing with customers' needs to have a little more self-control as well. In other places on this site we have discussed the state the auto repair industry is in, so I will not labor that any further. ...J.D.
 

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2004 Eclipse Spyder GS
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16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
I'll at least address coolant in general, regardless of what anybody's running in their personal rig. There's no such beast as normal ethylene glycol antifreeze. The IAT additive in the bright green stuff was developed nearly a century ago to prevent oxidization in iron and steel engines and radiators. The OAT additive in Dexcool was developed about 50 years ago to prevent oxidization of aluminum parts. And the newer, specialty stuff in dark green, blue, what-have-you coolant uses hybrid additives to prevent oxidization in both iron and aluminum. The base for all of them is ethylene glycol (unless you're using non-toxic specialty stuff). But you can't just put green IAT into an engine that's been running OAT, even after a flush. Any leftover additive will turn into a gummy mess.
 

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2004 Eclipse Spyder GS
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
For context, the mechanic was claiming the coolant was a major fault and at an emergency level because the antifreeze was totally orange from rust. His inspection report had a picture of the coolant reservoir filled with Dexcool (which is orange) as evidence.
 

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Fair, I was just looking at the manual as to what it said. I would expect if it needed the Dexcool, it would specify in the manual, but it says to is Mitsubishi Genuine Coolant, which from my understanding is blue, and not a type of Dexcool. As this was a Mitsubishi designed engine, regardless of who else helped developed the car, I wouldn't expect it to use Dexcool. If it was actually Dexcool and not just green/blue turning orange from rust, then sounds like someone swapped for something that wasn't supposed to be in there.
 

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2001 Spyder GT. Koni adj.shocks. CAI, ST swaybar.17X8.5 rims. LED lighting.
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I have owned my V-6 Spyder since 2005. I have always had Etheline Glycol coolant in it. At 143,000 miles, I have never had any problems. I last changed it out about 2 years ago. It looked fine, but the car had been sitting idle for 4 years, so I changed it. I am not an expert on coolant but, if you are getting rust, you have air in the system. It takes oxygen to form rust. That is just simple chemistry. Just stating my experience with it. ...J.D.
 

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2004 Eclipse Spyder GS
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To get definitive on the coolant question, this is from the information on Mitsubishi Genuine Coolant: "Pre-mixed with an organic corrosion inhibitor, it is optimized for enhanced cooling performance compared to conventional coolants." Organic corrosion inhibitor is the O in OAT (Organic Acid Technology) and the most commonly available OAT coolant is Dexcool. Like we all agree, green fluid with IAT instead of OAT will work fine, you just lose out on the additional protection for the aluminum radiator. Regardless, in my case specifically, the coolant is orange because it's Dexcool, not because it's rusty.
 

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2001 Spyder GT. Koni adj.shocks. CAI, ST swaybar.17X8.5 rims. LED lighting.
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At 22 years and counting, and 143k miles I have the original radiator. If I have to replace it someday, so be it. This is why I do not like to get into discussions about oil, or coolant, or fuel. ...J.D.
 

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At 22 years and counting, and 143k miles I have the original radiator. If I have to replace it someday, so be it. This is why I do not like to get into discussions about oil, or coolant, or fuel. ...J.D.
I get those. People have opinions about oil and fuel for days. Most would look at me crazy for saying I change my oil once ever 10k.

But This is the first I have seen anyone recommend anything else other than the green stuff for our cars. Kind of caught me more off guard and trying to find out more. I've really only read horror stories about using Dexcool. While it may be the most popular OAT, it doesn't mean that it should be used in every engine the requires OAT. There are green coolants with OAT.

But honestly, reading about it, they are more compatible today than they were years ago, where you won't have to worry about sludge as there are some coolants that can be mixed with either IAT or OAT without any degradation. I never thought twice about picking up a coolant aimed as Asian vehicles and know a little more now and will keep with the green OAT.

So, while you try to "get definitive," it just led to more questions for me, but I've learned a few things in the process.
 

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2001 Spyder GT. Koni adj.shocks. CAI, ST swaybar.17X8.5 rims. LED lighting.
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Mine had the "green stuff" in it when I bought it used. I kept the same in it because I do not believe in mixing chemicals. I am not a chemist. True, if you get the wrong mix of things in any system you are inviting problems. My experience with my car proves that it really does not matter that much. I think the more important thing is keeping the air out of the system and changing it now and then. The expansion tank is not only to keep coolant from overflowing, but it also serves as an air separator. It is vital the system is purged of air properly, and the pickup tube in the expansion take always be submerged so that the system does not draw air back in, as the engine cools. If you do not see the tank level rise and fall from hot to cold conditions, you have a leak somewhere. That being said, I try to avoid discussions with "zealots" that preach about one product over another. It is a fruitless waste of time. ...J.D.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I got all kinds of crap from some of the gearheads for putting Castrol GTX in my GTS instead of Mobil 1. It turned out the F-150 that turned that car into a pancake didn't care what kind of oil was in the engine, though
 

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2001 Spyder GT. Koni adj.shocks. CAI, ST swaybar.17X8.5 rims. LED lighting.
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I got all kinds of crap from some of the gearheads for putting Castrol GTX in my GTS instead of Mobil 1. It turned out the F-150 that turned that car into a pancake didn't care what kind of oil was in the engine, though
Yeh...Some of those people out here seem to get some "religious" feelings about one product over another. How many of those guys are Chemical Engineers ? They just bought into one sales pitch or another, and preach it as gospel. I currently have GTX in mine. It used to be kind of a leaker before I did some renovating on it. It was too expensive to put
Mobil 1 into a leaky old engine. A am now using 10-30 instead of 5-30. I find it keeps the valves from rattling as much when it is warming up. I am considering going to Mobil 1 at my every other, summer oil change this year. As I understand, synthetic oil has a better tolerance to high heat than crude oil. Where I live it gets very hot in the summer. No hurry on that though. The car only gets used 1000-2000miles a year. It is just a toy. ...J.D.
 
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