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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi, I was wondering what are the most fundementaly important tools needed to succecfuly tune? My buddy with a turbo 4G64 (galant) told me that his initial tuning could be done by EGT and SAFCII hooked up only to the narrowband o2 sensor (no afpr, high imp injectors, ect). Can we intially tune this way as well (he has all the other required gauges)?

Also which of these two fuel setups would you guys recommend for a moderate 250ish whp:

1)
DSM Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Stock fuel rails
450cc low impedance injectors (peak and hold ~ dont really want to mess with a resistor pack and stuff)

2)
Walbro 255lph pump
Stock rails
RC 310 High Impedance injectors


The way I see it is that both setups can avoid the use of an adjustable FPR.


Thanks a lot for your help.
 

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Kampfbereit
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Is this for a 4cyl or a 6cyl? We use high impedance injectors anyways, and the last 190lph fuel pump wouldn't even get a RS started the last time we tried it (not to say it won't work, but I've already had a bad experience with those).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Tearstone said:
Is this for a 4cyl or a 6cyl? We use high impedance injectors anyways, and the last 190lph fuel pump wouldn't even get a RS started the last time we tried it (not to say it won't work, but I've already had a bad experience with those).
This is for the V6. Thats odd that the 190 wouldn't work in the RS (basicly the same as the Galant I4). I know a few Galants running the 190. Though considering that the 255 and 190 are the same price I might as well go with the 255.

So overall, you guys have settled on the RC engineering 310cc Highs, w/255 lph pump right? I think this may basicly be the route I take, considering that I don't plan on pushing more than 250 fwhp (maybe 300 if I ever race Paul Walker).

BTW You guys look like you have a great kit. Very simple, and most importantly looks really stable (much akin to Xtech's kit).

NAPALM said:
Walrbo 255
SAFCII
450cc(resistors are required with low impedance injectors, not with HIgh.)
Wideband(I recommnd the Zeitronix ZT-2)
Data logger(I recommend the Pocket Logger)
EGT gauge
Boost gauge
Save for the injectors and o2 sensor, I think thats the basic outline. I want to hold off on the wideband till after I got everything pieced together and what not. And for the injectors, same as mentioned above: 310cc high impedance w/Walbro 255.

Now I've got a question left: Can the ZT-2 wideband hook up directly into the SAFCII? I really dont want to pay $100 extra for the LCD screen (saw the GB btw ~ if its still going on, im intrested now). BUT my 4G64 let me know that for DSMs, wideband & SAFC is a not recomended since the SAFC will eventually fry the wires (or something like that).

Thanks a LOT for your guy's help.
 

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OMFG
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Jetblackness said:
Save for the injectors and o2 sensor, I think thats the basic outline. I want to hold off on the wideband till after I got everything pieced together and what not. And for the injectors, same as mentioned above: 310cc high impedance w/Walbro 255.

Now I've got a question left: Can the ZT-2 wideband hook up directly into the SAFCII? I really dont want to pay $100 extra for the LCD screen (saw the GB btw ~ if its still going on, im intrested now). BUT my 4G64 let me know that for DSMs, wideband & SAFC is a not recomended since the SAFC will eventually fry the wires (or something like that).

Thanks a LOT for your guy's help.
Well first off; frying wires is NOT standard proceedure. :lol: That is a wiring problem, or fried SAFCII, or both.

Technically you CAN hook a wideband to the SAFCII. You can use the AIrflow-2 input on the SAFCII to monitor the Wideband voltage. Ive never done this witha wideband but I cant see any reason why it wouldnt work. I actually did have my stock O2 sensor hooked to my SAFCII for the 3 days that I used it, and didnt have any problems. You will be looking at a 0-5V signal that corresponds to an AFR. Once you get used to looking at the voltage level I suppose it will be just as good as looking at the AFR(in which case you wouldnt miss the LCD at all). This is how I data log boost with my ZT-2. Since my greddy 3 bar map has a different output range than the output that Zeitronix Boost sensor has, I just use the 0-5V user input ont he ZT-2 to log my 3bar map sensor voltage output.

The other thing you can do which is what is so great about the ZT-2 is its awesome and easy to use data logging through a laptop serial connection. You dont need the LCD to do this.

In any case if you want a good reliable tune, and you want to do it yourself, those are the essentials.

I too recommend gettingt he 450cc injectors. Once you feel boost, you WILL turn it up more and more. You NEED the extra injectors for when you 'feel the urge'. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Haha, dammit you guys you've got me hooked on boost now (I can already see the stock exhaust manifold glowing). Ok so I've decided that it is worth the extra hassle to go with low impedance injectors.

Now with the 450cc, the total lph of all 6 injectors, comes out 160lph. Now wont the fuel rail be flooded?

Napalm, I think Im just go with the wideband your talking about. Though I had another question regarding the stock O2 sensor. What voltage scale does the O2 sensor run at, in comparison to the ZT2?
 

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Kampfbereit
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Jetblackness said:
Haha, dammit you guys you've got me hooked on boost now (I can already see the stock exhaust manifold glowing). Ok so I've decided that it is worth the extra hassle to go with low impedance injectors.

Now with the 450cc, the total lph of all 6 injectors, comes out 160lph. Now wont the fuel rail be flooded?

Napalm, I think Im just go with the wideband your talking about. Though I had another question regarding the stock O2 sensor. What voltage scale does the O2 sensor run at, in comparison to the ZT2?
If you use bigger injectors an AFC will compensate for the difference by leaning out the low end. But if your starting out with nothing, you should start out with the E-Manage, as you will have much more control over your tune. Stay away from the AFC for boost. AFC is an entry level tuning device which offers very limited flexibility.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Tearstone said:
If you use bigger injectors an AFC will compensate for the difference by leaning out the low end. But if your starting out with nothing, you should start out with the E-Manage, as you will have much more control over your tune. Stay away from the AFC for boost. AFC is an entry level tuning device which offers very limited flexibility.
Ok, so I'm going for the Emanage instead of the SAFCII. Now for the Emanage, I plan to get the support tools, and possibly the ignition harness (hopefuly I can splice the extra wires into a makeshift injector harness).

I got two last questions:

1) What is more important? Controlling ignition timing, or injector pw?
2) With the Emanage, the pocketlogger isn't required right?

Thanks.
 

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Kampfbereit
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Jetblackness said:
Ok, so I'm going for the Emanage instead of the SAFCII. Now for the Emanage, I plan to get the support tools, and possibly the ignition harness (hopefuly I can splice the extra wires into a makeshift injector harness).

I got two last questions:

1) What is more important? Controlling ignition timing, or injector pw?
2) With the Emanage, the pocketlogger isn't required right?

Thanks.
I think for low amount of boost, controlling the injector pw is going to work out more to your advantage, but controlling timing at higher levels of boost is required. The logging capabilities of the e-manage are nothing like what you can see on a pocket logger as the pocket logger is showing you what's going through OBD-II. The E-Manage is tapped into only a few wires providing it information.
 
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