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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hey, guys
i havent reallly posted/ made any threads very often as you can tell
but i have used this site frequently to answer all of my question and or concenrs. lol

but anyways, i have an 01' gt with two MTX 8500 12 inch subwoofers in the trunk in the premade mtx box that is 2 cubic feet per sub, im running it at 2 ohms with a mtx thunder elite series 1501D amp. i have kicker 1/0 gauge running it and a red top for some extra juice. upgraded speakers all around , ( waiting to put my badass 4 channel in)

my plan is to build a wall behind the two front seats, as in, have the subs facing you while being about a foot or so away (competition style).... this will be very loud, i know, but i never use my rear seats and i want something that is more than loud....there arent many cars around here where i live that are louder than mine when it comes to subwoofers, but i want somethign more custom (shock factor) and just the fact that i am already tired of my setup is another reason. im ok with having this as a permanent fix in my car, im an audiophile and i think this would bring my own personal listening experience above the edge.

i want to know if anyone has experience doing this in a 3g (preferably, lol), but let alone any car. i can cut/measure/ wiring do all of the labor and things like that, i just want someone else to give me as much info as they know about going through this process.


and i will not be using any fiberglass whatsoever, just wood, and carpet for aesthetics.

it will be ported and i will have to figure out the perfect size of the new boxes and port size/length/width and such according to the airspace i have and frequency i want.

i will also be considering putting a third subwoofer just like the other two in there since my amp will be able to run at that ohm load and produce that amount of RMS to the subs.

i know this is alot, but anything you guys give me will help.


ive been pondering desing layouts in my head, but i would rather have facts first to weave out all of the fantasy thoguhts out.lol

appreciate the help
 

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my plan is to build a wall behind the two front seats, as in, have the subs facing you while being about a foot or so away (competition style).... this will be very loud, i know, but i never use my rear seats and i want something that is more than loud....there arent many cars around here where i live that are louder than mine when it comes to subwoofers, but i want somethign more custom (shock factor) and just the fact that i am already tired of my setup is another reason. im ok with having this as a permanent fix in my car, im an audiophile and i think this would bring my own personal listening experience above the edge.

That right there pretty much sums up the purpose of a wall in a 3g. I personally know four people besides myself who use 3g's as their USACi cars. Two of the four are in the 150+ club, and neither of them have a wall. A wall is pretty much for show factor. Now don't get me wrong, I think walls are the shit, but if the car is a daily driver I just don't get the point of making a slow car even slower.



i want to know if anyone has experience doing this in a 3g (preferably, lol), but let alone any car. i can cut/measure/ wiring do all of the labor and things like that, i just want someone else to give me as much info as they know about going through this process.


and i will not be using any fiberglass whatsoever, just wood, and carpet for aesthetics.

it will be ported and i will have to figure out the perfect size of the new boxes and port size/length/width and such according to the airspace i have and frequency i want.
I have a lot of experience building and designing walls for customers and friends. Though I didn't design it, I helped my friend Steve build his wall for his 3g. I really can't recommend using just MDF. If nothing else, fiberglass resin is very useful to add rigidity as well as help to seal the massive box. Oh well, not worth getting in to specifics now, but here is a basic process to get you started:

1.) Remove stock seats/interior panels
2.) Apply dampening material (dynamat, damplifier, spectrum sludge, etc)
3.) Design Box to fit car
4.) Bring floor to a single level
5.) Lay down box floor - (2x) sheets of mdf, glued together
6.) Construct side & back walls/backing (2x sheets thick) then the ceiling
7.) Construct Port & Front Wall
8.) Brace with 1-1.5" dowels or threaded rod
9.) Paint interior of box with resin for additional strength
10.) Make a beauty panel for the front/rear & paint the port




i will also be considering putting a third subwoofer just like the other two in there since my amp will be able to run at that ohm load and produce that amount of RMS to the subs.
To really utilize the wall, you are going to need subwoofers that can move a large amount of air, otherwise you're just pretty much running them infinite baffle. I would consider selling the 12's and going with a set of solidly build 15's or 18's, something that can handle large amounts of power.. Since you're putting all this work in to it, you might as well go big or go home right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ok, got it all , thanks so much man, that was tons of help getting my brainstorming in line on what i need to focus on..

ok, no what would fall under the category of solidly built 15's or 18s'?

i hear tons about Fi BTL, RE XXX , RE MT, TREO, MTX 9500, ect, but im pretty goood with my info on name brand stuff, i dont have any knowledge on the lower known brands. ive heard of audioQ, but theyre prices are really cheap, but ppl talk tons about them im competition and quality. can i get some help with choosing some, i was thinking either 2 15's or 18's or a ton of twelves (maybe) .. im oepn to any amount i can fit in my car with respect to some reality on my first wall build. price is not much of a problem, as long as their not running like a grand a piece for a damn 12., i just need to know what brands are solid for puttin up some impressive numbers, and obviously some amps to run these bada boys. also, i would like to stray away from running like 10 kinetic 2400's. lol. i want loud, but not where i need to spend more money in batteries than what my car is worth. i know some of this is contradictory, sorry, but i wanna take in as much as possible from you guys to better my knowledge on what to purchase.
 

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i know some of this is contradictory, sorry, but i wanna take in as much as possible from you guys to better my knowledge on what to purchase.
Thank you very much for keeping practicality and reality in mind. Everybody wants the biggest most bad-ass system they can put in their car, but very few are willing to either spend the $$$ and do the work. In my honest opinion, you're better off spending a moderate amount of cash on a decent setup. After all, you're the one who has to listen to it everyday.

Audioque makes some very solid woofers and they're about the best bang for your buck right now. My girlfriend runs a single 12" SDC2.5 in her car and she loves it. Although the rated power is 600w, I am sending it around 725 and it takes it like a champ. RE SE's are in the same price range, but they don't have nearly as much output. You could get two 15" SCD2.5's for about $350. They have a fs of 30hz, and if you tuned the box around 32-34hz they would be low-end monsters. The box needs to be about 7 to 8 cubes, and since you're new to box building I recommend using (4) 6" aero ports instead of a large wooden port (easier to figure tuning) Pair em' up with a Audioque or Sundown 1200d and you're set. As far as electrical goes I recommend a big 3 setup, 1/0 wiring, a yellow top up front, and perhaps a small battery in the rear like a kinetik 600.

In the grand sense of things you're talking ~$350 in woofers, ~$275 in an amp, ~$200 in wiring, ~$150 for the yellow top and $100 for the kinetik 600 in the rear, and $300+ in the box build. That comes to $1375, give or take $100

If you want to go bigger you're going to run in to power issues, additional costs, etc. I can guide you in a "budget" build, but since you're after quality on a budget I'm only recommending solid equipment that I have personally worked with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
ya i just bought a brand new red top about a week ago cuz my old battery crapped out on me. so i might not be going for the yellowtop. a kinetic was for sure on my list (a 600 or 800). the big three is on my to do list next (i have tons of 1/0 gauge and 4 gauge laying around)

on subwoofers, i was looking at audioque HDC3 subwoofers , i was loookin at something a little more beefier than the one you said, the streetduty , is there any other good brands to do research on for my certain application???? i am going to sell my current setup and get about 1500 give or take for it. so i would be able to use that money directly for my new setup. i might keep my amp i have right now since it puts out a decent amount of power, it gives 725 at 4 ohms, 1260 at 2ohms, and 1626 at 1ohm, thats what the birth sheet said.

i am leaning towwards a set of 15's for my car, i have juggled around having a set of 18's in the back too., is there any pro/con to having a 15 or 18?
sound, too much airspace, power, ect?

i personally wound like to go slightly "bigger" than what your reccomending, some woofers that would really make a change, have a little more punch packing if you know what i mean, i love my current woofers, now i want to fall in love with the next ones even more than i did with these. i want that smile on my face when i first hooked these up for the first time.lol

but my limitations is going to be me not wanting to buy four $300 kinetics all strapped together.lol thats my range i want to be in between. a battery or two in the back max.

thanks so much again
 

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Good choices on the electrical upgrades - but if you're gonna be running more power you need a much bigger battery, think kinetik 2400 or powermaster d3100.

If you read up on the topic, you would see that the SDC2.5's were something ridiculous like 1.9 db's less output than the HDC3 on half the power. If you want to run HDC3's go for it, but I'm warning you - they don't sound pretty. They're made as a straight SPL machine (aka fart cannon).

If you are still looking to move up, consider a pair of fully loaded Fi BL's. They're made for abuse and have a little bit of sound quality to them. I ran a single 12" BL in my car on 1500w and it performed wonderfully.

Honestly, since you aren't going to notice a HUGE amount of difference between the two, it is kinda pointless to go with the HDC3. They cost more, require more power, and require you to build your car's electrical system to support it.

Be back later with more, gotta go to work haha
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
after some slight research, im liking the FI BL's alot. BTL is too much for me. two 15's would seem perfect in my situation.
and by fully loaded you mean like the cooling package with the flatwind coils with the daily listenging upgrades? that stuff?

i see everyone running a good 1500RMS to them instead of the 1000, they say with the upgrades it handles more, the only dillemma then would be to find an amp puttin out 3k rms at 1 ohm. or i can buy another one of my amps and run one amp to each sub, i dont know if that would be better or not.
and would the red top and a kinetic 2400 be enough to power that without a major issue?

oh and what is the minimum your voltage should drop on a good note at max volume? mine does like 11ish in mid note. people were getting mad that theirs for dropping to 13.5 so idk what is considered bad.

anyways, thats one setup that caught my eye and seems like the amount of power and beefiness i want. lol. but ya, my bad for taking your turn. please continue.
 

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after some slight research, im liking the FI BL's alot. BTL is too much for me. two 15's would seem perfect in my situation.
and by fully loaded you mean like the cooling package with the flatwind coils with the daily listenging upgrades? that stuff?

i see everyone running a good 1500RMS to them instead of the 1000, they say with the upgrades it handles more, the only dillemma then would be to find an amp puttin out 3k rms at 1 ohm. or i can buy another one of my amps and run one amp to each sub, i dont know if that would be better or not.
and would the red top and a kinetic 2400 be enough to power that without a major issue?

oh and what is the minimum your voltage should drop on a good note at max volume? mine does like 11ish in mid note. people were getting mad that theirs for dropping to 13.5 so idk what is considered bad.

anyways, thats one setup that caught my eye and seems like the amount of power and beefiness i want. lol. but ya, my bad for taking your turn. please continue.
I ran my 12" Fully loaded BL on 1500w and it took it like a champ. FYI by fully loaded I mean get it loaded w/ hyper pole, cooling, flatwind, extreme lead & daily options.

A red top & a single kinetik HC2400 were not enough to support 3kw rms on my car. I have two HC2400's and a redtop now, running roughly 3500w rms between my subs and front stage, and I have no voltage drop issues. On a long note i will drop to 13.8-9ish. Before I added the third battery I was in the mid 12's on a good hit. As a general rule you want to avoid anything below 12v, because that is amplifier damage territory.

And FYI there are several amps out there that put out 3k rms @ 1 ohm - the cheapest being the Crunch GP3000d Pro. Other great amps are the Sundown saz-3000d, stetsom 2k4d, RD audio 3250.1, PowerBass XA3000D, the list goes on and on haha.. If your mtx amp is stable @ 1ohm, then it might be cheaper to go get another and run 1 amp per sub.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
oh ok so with every single attachment is best.. got it.

so i did the BIG 3 yesterday, just liek the sticky post in the garage says. pretty easy as cake, when i turned it on and blasted it, i got the lowest voltage drop to be12.8 . i loved it. when idle, the car rests at 14.5 or 14.0. by the end of the night though i was dropping to about 11.7, AGAIN.. maybe cuz i was raping the battery all night at the car meet or what, but it made me mad..lol

ya now i need to buy me some kinetics for sure, where is a good place to get the best deal on them? you said earlier about getting a 600 for 100$ and the cheapest i found it was like $140, so thatd be great if yall told me the best place to buy them, and ill most likely get the 2400.

ya my amp is stable at 1ohm, it puts out 1600 at 1 ohm, so thats great, its that buying another one will run me $500, i dont know if it would be more beneficial to sell mine and get one ballin ass amp or buy another one. can i get some prices.?

so i was at a car meet last night and a guy in a 95 civic coupe pulls up and i can hear his setup from a long ways away,. i come to see he has 2 ameerican bass 12's in a ported small box (about ahlf the size of mine) running off an amercian bass amp , like the xfl or rfl 400.1 or something , the subs were the xfl i think, the second best ones they make or something, and he just had a tiny little OE honda battery, and shitty 4 gauge wirirng, stock alt. a cheap $100 deck, and he said he was hittin 149 max, the cool part about it was that his setup was a hair away from being as loud as mine like freakishly close., his is the only one that has come close to being as loud as mine around here. the part that gets me that maybe yall can help me out with is that how did he achieve sound as loud as me or jus that loud period, with a battery the size of my wallet and 4 gauge wiring.?

the next loudest car coming close to that honda and i was a volvo with 4 12 inch treo ssx on a 1500 watt amp witht a ported box where all the subs share the airspace in a trunk with the seats down.., it hit way lower than mine, but not nearly as loud.

but ya, idk if american bass is jsut that baddass, (which by last night it seems like it is.) or his is jsut a freak of nature, but either or, that mans setup with that wiring configuration made me really look into amedrican bass. lol


any input anyone has will be greatly appreciated.
 

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ya now i need to buy me some kinetics for sure, where is a good place to get the best deal on them? you said earlier about getting a 600 for 100$ and the cheapest i found it was like $140, so thatd be great if yall told me the best place to buy them, and ill most likely get the 2400.
eBay is your best bet unless you have a connection to someone on team Kinetik or someone else who will sell you one below msrp.


ya my amp is stable at 1ohm, it puts out 1600 at 1 ohm, so thats great, its that buying another one will run me $500, i dont know if it would be more beneficial to sell mine and get one ballin ass amp or buy another one. can i get some prices.?
Kindly do your own research, I can't spoon feed you everything haha. There are lots of good quality amps out there which put out 3000w+ rms, shop around online for the best deals. Buying them used would save you big $$$.

so i was at a car meet last night and a guy in a 95 civic coupe pulls up and i can hear his setup from a long ways away,. i come to see he has 2 ameerican bass 12's in a ported small box (about ahlf the size of mine) running off an amercian bass amp , like the xfl or rfl 400.1 or something , the subs were the xfl i think, the second best ones they make or something, and he just had a tiny little OE honda battery, and shitty 4 gauge wirirng, stock alt. a cheap $100 deck, and he said he was hittin 149 max, the cool part about it was that his setup was a hair away from being as loud as mine like freakishly close., his is the only one that has come close to being as loud as mine around here. the part that gets me that maybe yall can help me out with is that how did he achieve sound as loud as me or jus that loud period, with a battery the size of my wallet and 4 gauge wiring.?
Any chance those American Bass subwoofers were the ones that are built on the konaki motors? If so they're the exact same thing as the Audioque HDC3. I can't speak for his electrical beyond stating that 4 gauge wiring is good to around 1000w rms in the typical car. The best I can tell you is proper deadening is your friend, always have more than enough power on tap, and you gotta pay to play with the big boys haha..
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
alright, i just didnt know if you could trust ebay with batteries , ya know.

and i was contemplating last night, if im looking for sound as well, 4 12's would sound better than 2 15's. i know its up to my ear to determine, but thats the general rule. i already have two pretty good 12's anda pretty good amp,

i can do 2 more of the same twelves and on more amp and make that my wall,
would you reccomend just using the manufacturer's specs on teh size/port/ everything even when dealing with a wall. ?


and as for the amercian bass motor, i have no idea. oh and he had absoultely no sound deadening at all
 

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alright, i just didnt know if you could trust ebay with batteries , ya know.

and i was contemplating last night, if im looking for sound as well, 4 12's would sound better than 2 15's. i know its up to my ear to determine, but thats the general rule. i already have two pretty good 12's anda pretty good amp,

i can do 2 more of the same twelves and on more amp and make that my wall,
would you reccomend just using the manufacturer's specs on teh size/port/ everything even when dealing with a wall. ?


and as for the amercian bass motor, i have no idea. oh and he had absoultely no sound deadening at all


Follow the MFG's specs as far as a box goes. As a general rule you want around 12" of port area per cubic foot of displacement, more if your woofers will support it. I suggest using aero (or psp) ports since they take up less physical space and allow for dramatically increased port velocity - that increase in port velocity allows you to reduce the amount of port area by almost 50%. Do some research online and you will soon see what I'm talking about.
 
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