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R.I.P. silverside
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a rebuilt longblock (that means motor and head correct?) 3.0 GT with the works and about 20,000 miles that had a RIPP SDS stage 1 on it. I now have 2 3G's that I'm trying to build up, an '03 GTS Spyder manual and what was 04mojogt's '04 GT. I've been reading plenty up on boosting with stock internals, how much can they take and all that. My dilemma is this: Which motors should I use in what vehicle? I already have one built longblock so really I'm trying to decide should I get rid of the motor that's in the '04 GT or toss the GTS motor or get a 6G74. I want to achieve 400whp in both of these cars. I'm reading that the GTS needs at least a forged piston upgrade to be able to begin taking double digit boost levels. But if I'm gonna do that then I'm gonna go all out and completely rebuild the whole longblock. But now I'm thinking would a 6G74 stock be able to achieve what a rebuilt 6G72 could do and if not how far off and what would need to be done to get the 6G74 to that level. I forgot to mention that I have to give up one motor to replace the rebuilt 3.0 longblock I took out when I sold the car. Should I build up the '03 GTS motor, should I build the '04 GT motor or should I get a 6G74? I'm looking for the solution that will cost me the least amount of money and time. I've been looking at these 2 videos which have had me thinking on what to do. I need to mention this also: Both cars will have a RIPP SDS stage 3 kit installed.

YouTube - RIPP 3rd Gen Eclipse GTS Supercharger Stg2 340whp
The car in this video closely resembles the '03 GTS Spyder, however this car is an automatic where mine is manual. This car is running on a stage 2 with stock exhaust where I already have a Greddy exhaust and will be running on a stage 3 kit. I'm definetly assuming this motor was rebuilt to handle the max boost of 12psi.

YouTube - RIPP 3rd Gen Eclipse GT Supercharger Stg 3 380whp
The car in this video closely resembles the '04 GT. I'm gonna assume this motor was rebuilt for it to handle 16.5psi or was it? I would like to get 18psi max.

I need to make a decision quickly. I'm going to RIPP sometime this week to begin the transformations of these cars and I would like to have some kind of plan of which motors will be kept and upgraded and which one should be tossed while doing it for the lowest cost. I welcome all knowledge and useful opinions from all, but I also would like the opinions of the heavy hitters such as PharmEcis, Tearstone, The Franchise, Repferenzo, and Jbasol.
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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10,932 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
do me a favor atleast. Go to another shop and get the car dynoed. I just dont believe those numbers
What's up icemanrld19? I was hoping you would read the thread. I really like what you did to your Spyder. I was seriously thinking about going turbo like yourself but for some reasons I decided to stay with the RIPP SDS. But back to the topic, yeah I could see where you're coming from about the numbers. They seem to conflict with some of the info on here. I'm really concerned about the Spyder video. It says it produced 338whp for an automatic. That sounds real good considering it has stock exhaust, high flow cat and stock intake manifold. I wish they would have stated if any engine work was done for it to handle 12psi boost max but I'll find out. Here is a video of my 1st 3G being dynoed at RIPP.
YouTube - RIPP 3rd Gen 294WHP Eclipse GT Supercharger Stg 1 145k MILES

This was on a bonestock car except the headers which came with my kit. I rebuilt the engine, added an exhaust plus tune and dynoed it again and reached 312 with max boost at 6psi. I've seen RIPP dyno a good amount of cars. I don't want to say their dyno is 100% accurate and they're perfect but I believe it is really close to accurate. I've seen them dyno some real strong vehicles and for what was under the hood the numbers seem to match it. I will look into finding another shop to get it dynoed. But what should I do about these motors?
 

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Resident Asshole
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You aren't going to get to 400whp w/ the SDS. At 15 psi, stage 2 we were able to eek out just under 300whp on a Mustang Dyno. Stage 3 is a joke. The design of the SDS won't really allow you to hit the kind of boost levels necessary for 400whp. The belt will slip. The tensioner doesn't really work. The Vortech unit that came w/ the kits is going to be struggling at that level.

A stock 74 won't be able to handle any more boost than a 72. You are roughly looking at another $1000 to build a 74 over a 72 and that includes purchasing a core for the rebuild.

Building 2 of these platforms? You got a lot of money to throw away?
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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10,932 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
You aren't going to get to 400whp w/ the SDS. At 15 psi, stage 2 we were able to eek out just under 300whp on a Mustang Dyno. Stage 3 is a joke. The design of the SDS won't really allow you to hit the kind of boost levels necessary for 400whp. The belt will slip. The tensioner doesn't really work. The Vortech unit that came w/ the kits is going to be struggling at that level.

A stock 74 won't be able to handle any more boost than a 72. You are roughly looking at another $1000 to build a 74 over a 72 and that includes purchasing a core for the rebuild.

Building 2 of these platforms? You got a lot of money to throw away?
Thanks for responding PharmEcis. Are you saying that the dyno numbers from RIPP are inaccurate then? You mentioned a Mustang dyno, I'm not familiar with dynos but is there a difference? I figured 400whp would be achievable from the numbers put up from the videos. My 1st 3G produced 294whp on a stage 1 with max boost at 6psi. Now I don't know what to believe when it comes to RIPP's numbers. I trust your info plus the other members I mentioned in the first post on this thread. Should I scrap the SDS and go turbo then? Oh yeah, I don't have a lot of money to throw away, lol. It's just that I already have a starting point in one rebuilt motor and a brand new Vortech blower so I worked a little overtime and saved some money to get my 2nd 3G done.
 

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Resident Asshole
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Oh I'm sure you'll get close to making those numbers on Ripp's dyno but probably not on a Mustang. Dynojet will probably get you close to there as well.

You should have gathered by now that I'm not a big fan of the SDS. Turbo kits have their own problems, but if you have a built motor, it's honestly THE way to go to make REAL power.
 

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Ah yes...
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I think you can get 400whp. But probably not with a V5G blower. I know you can with a V1 blower though.

I have nothing against this platform. I been running it for a few years now and really don't have too many issues. I change belts every season and keep them tensioned, don't get any belt slip really as of now.

I think what it boils down to is tuning for any system. If you have a good tune, then your problems should be minimal.

I would suggest you get something decent to tune both cars with. Like standalone systems... otherwise you will be having issues the entire way.
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh I'm sure you'll get close to making those numbers on Ripp's dyno but probably not on a Mustang. Dynojet will probably get you close to there as well.

You should have gathered by now that I'm not a big fan of the SDS. Turbo kits have their own problems, but if you have a built motor, it's honestly THE way to go to make REAL power.
Lol, yeah I gathered you're not a big fan of the SDS but you're still giving me your honest opinion. You have me really paranoid now about these different dynos. What are the differences? If turbo is the way to go then where should I look to purchase a turbo kit? I believe Tearstone makes one but where else should I look?

I think you can get 400whp. But probably not with a V5G blower. I know you can with a V1 blower though.

I have nothing against this platform. I been running it for a few years now and really don't have too many issues. I change belts every season and keep them tensioned, don't get any belt slip really as of now.

I think what it boils down to is tuning for any system. If you have a good tune, then your problems should be minimal.

I would suggest you get something decent to tune both cars with. Like standalone systems... otherwise you will be having issues the entire way.
Do I need a standalone after the tune that RIPP does or will their tune be sufficient?

Thanks for responding by the way.
 

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Ah yes...
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I used the RIPP system and it's worthless as is their "tune" our ECU from Mitsu is designed to be self learning so whatever you use Emanage, RIPP BOX, etc... it will slowly revert back to a stock tune and cause issues, throw codes, and lean out. I run a Haltech E8 EMS on my car, which is a full standalone system. It's the only way to control everything, so is Chato he is running a E8 as well, as well was callmebryan on his 2g stratus. The system worked for all of us. But yes it costs $1200, plus setup and tuning.

Check either callmebryan or my car on members rides to see our setups with a RIPP system and you can check out CHato for the turbo system.


On our cars piggybacks simply don't cut it for high levels of performance. They are okay for small amounts of boost, but a reflash might be a better call even before a RIPP black box.
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I used the RIPP system and it's worthless as is their "tune" our ECU from Mitsu is designed to be self learning so whatever you use Emanage, RIPP BOX, etc... it will slowly revert back to a stock tune and cause issues, throw codes, and lean out. I run a Haltech E8 EMS on my car, which is a full standalone system. It's the only way to control everything, so is Chato he is running a E8 as well, as well was callmebryan on his 2g stratus. The system worked for all of us. But yes it costs $1200, plus setup and tuning.

Check either callmebryan or my car on members rides to see our setups with a RIPP system and you can check out CHato for the turbo system.


On our cars piggybacks simply don't cut it for high levels of performance. They are okay for small amounts of boost, but a reflash might be a better call even before a RIPP black box.
Alright, thanks. The '04 GT's ECU has been reflashed so I guess I'm ahead of the game a little bit there, but will I still need the standalone on that car? Also what is your opinion on the numbers RIPP puts out on their dynos? Should I trust them?
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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1,713 Posts
I used the RIPP system and it's worthless as is their "tune" our ECU from Mitsu is designed to be self learning so whatever you use Emanage, RIPP BOX, etc... it will slowly revert back to a stock tune and cause issues, throw codes, and lean out. I run a Haltech E8 EMS on my car, which is a full standalone system. It's the only way to control everything, so is Chato he is running a E8 as well, as well was callmebryan on his 2g stratus. The system worked for all of us. But yes it costs $1200, plus setup and tuning.

Check either callmebryan or my car on members rides to see our setups with a RIPP system and you can check out CHato for the turbo system.


On our cars piggybacks simply don't cut it for high levels of performance. They are okay for small amounts of boost, but a reflash might be a better call even before a RIPP black box.
:agreed: Don't waste your money on crappy piggybacks. If you want to make decent power, and you want your car to be reliable, a standalone ECU is the way to go. Also, If you are planning on hitting the 400whp mark, start looking for some better cams since the stock ones won't let you get there.
 

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Ah yes...
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My car turned out 384whp on their dyno still on a v5G about 3-4 years ago. I run a V1 S-Trim blower now. So I doubt they inflate their numbers since by stages that's pretty similar to what most cars made. I dunno, I guess at worst go to a different Dynojet or WinPEP dyno and see what your car runs.
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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Alright, thanks. The '04 GT's ECU has been reflashed so I guess I'm ahead of the game a little bit there, but will I still need the standalone on that car? Also what is your opinion on the numbers RIPP puts out on their dynos? Should I trust them?
Dude. A dyno number is just a number since different dynos give you different results. The only time you will figure out how much power you are putting down, is when you actually race your car against others and compare.
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
:agreed: Don't waste your money on crappy piggybacks. If you want to make decent power, and you want your car to be reliable, a standalone ECU is the way to go. Also, If you are planning on hitting the 400whp mark, start looking for some better cams since the stock ones won't let you get there.
Thanks for taking part in this thread. Upgrading the cams is something we were going to do. About the standalone ECU, will I still need it for an ECU that's already been reflashed?
 

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Ah yes...
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Dude. A dyno number is just a number since different dynos give you different results. The only time you will figure out how much power you are putting down, is when you actually race your car against others and compare.
Well as of right now this was a convo on how she can attain 400whp. But yes its just a number, and to some people its all that matters. To some its drag racing, other's its road race, and others autox.

Build a car for what you do. :)
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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Well as of right now this was a convo on how she can attain 400whp. But yes its just a number, and to some people its all that matters. To some its drag racing, other's its road race, and others autox.

Build a car for what you do. :)
:agreed:
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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10,932 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Dude. A dyno number is just a number since different dynos give you different results. The only time you will figure out how much power you are putting down, is when you actually race your car against others and compare.
That's pretty much the answer I was looking for concerning dynos. I'm not gonna go crazy trying to figure out the differences, I just figured they were generally the same. I have no problem doing a comparison in a race. I'm sure I'll have plenty of chances and competition.
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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Thanks for taking part in this thread. Upgrading the cams is something we were going to do. About the standalone ECU, will I still need it for an ECU that's already been reflashed?
I'm not sure how the ECU reflash will work with boost. One thing I can assure you is that a standalone ECU is better than any piggyback or reflash for this platform.
 

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R.I.P. silverside
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10,932 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm not sure how the ECU reflash will work with boost. One thing I can assure you is that a standalone ECU is better than any piggyback or reflash for this platform.
O.K. so I'm going to need 2 standalone systems. About the motors now, should I completely rebuild the GTS or sell it and purchase a 6G74 and rebuild that? I wanna believe that extra .5l will give me some kind of significant gain in whp.
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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1,713 Posts
O.K. so I'm going to need 2 standalone systems. About the motors now, should I completely rebuild the GTS or sell it and purchase a 6G74 and rebuild that? I wanna believe that extra .5l will give me some kind of significant gain in whp.
$4K just in standalone ECU's. Man you got some money! Lol

This is my honest opinion. A 6G74 turbo fully built and done right would be a monster. Now, I decided to stick to the 72 because it will let me achive my goals plus I already had it. There was no reason for me to ditch the 72 for a 74. The only time I would probably go with a 74 is if I blow up my 72. Remember, we have a FWD car. I'm having enough problems trying to hook up at the track with 325whp (street tires) BTW, My goal is to be around the 500-600whp range. That is a lot of power for a FWD car, but I'm also working on putting it to the ground.:twocent:
 
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