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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning on putting in forged pistons and rods to put the boost up. I was wondering if i need to retard the timing. Would i need a new ignition?
GT35R BB turbo
 

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OMFG
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thoma16 said:
I am planning on putting in forged pistons and rods to put the boost up. I was wondering if i need to retard the timing. Would i need a new ignition?
GT35R BB turbo
Dont just throw new pistons and rods into the engine. Do a full rebuild. Throwing parts in without doing anything else is utter stupidity(not calling you stupid, just stating facts).

I know the 4G64 is a completely different engine and ECU setup. But the GS ECU does a great job at handling ignition timing. I only get about 19-20degrees advance at 4500RPM and up while in open loop. WHich is perfect for about 15PSI of boost on the 4G64. Once I start dyno tuning at 20PSI and up Ill probably have to start tweaking the timing with the emanage. But For now, its perfect.

Just get a data logger and monitor the timing. You prob want it around the same as us boosted RS/GS' run. If the ECU doesnt bring the advance down on its own then start tweaking it yourself.

You wont need a new ignition to do this either. Just an emanage. :twothumb:
Someone with more experience on the GT/GTS can prob give you better advice, but I hope that helps somewhat anyways. ;)
 

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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes... obviously the sleeves will be resurfaced or bored whichever term you like. I know that you cant just throw new pistons into an old worn sleeve. lol I only have an SAFC2, no emanage yet. I am looking for around 500 hp how ever many psi that is. Right now im at 320 hp @ 7psi.
 

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OMFG
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thoma16 said:
Yes... obviously the sleeves will be resurfaced or bored whichever term you like. I know that you cant just throw new pistons into an old worn sleeve. lol I only have an SAFC2, no emanage yet. I am looking for around 500 hp how ever many psi that is. Right now im at 320 hp @ 7psi.
I would also recommend, resurfacing the deck, and the head. Also all new bearings, gaskets, seals, etc etc. Basically a complete engine build. It will do you good in the long run. YOu wont have to worry about something stupid failing later on.
 

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Resident Asshole
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thoma16 said:
Yes... obviously the sleeves will be resurfaced or bored whichever term you like. I know that you cant just throw new pistons into an old worn sleeve. lol I only have an SAFC2, no emanage yet. I am looking for around 500 hp how ever many psi that is. Right now im at 320 hp @ 7psi.
the stock rods in the 6g72 are good for 500whp so you really dont need to replace them. spend the 1000 for rods on something else. everything in the engine is strong cept for the pistons which are the weak point
 

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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ya i no... i want it so they can take anything... i wanna have one of those really reliable muscle cars that i wont ever have to worry about. I know its a lot of money but its still cheaper than having to totally rebuild in the future... Im almost 16 right now so im kinda short on money... I've been saving for this and i just had an opportunity to go to my friends uncle who is a mechanic and install clutch, pistons, and rods and all that good stuff... bearings etc.. i figure i should just put them in to be safe. Does anybody know if or how much i will have to change the timing and what i will need to do it?
 

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What are you doing driving around a 300+ hp car with a learners permit? Not trying to really bash you, well maybe a little. but give it some time. It could save lives. And yes you are gonna have to change the timing if you want to achieve those high hp #'s but a able tuner should be more then happy to help you with that. Just dont throw in some #'s from what you get on the boards.
thoma16 said:
Ya i no... i want it so they can take anything... i wanna have one of those really reliable muscle cars that i wont ever have to worry about. I know its a lot of money but its still cheaper than having to totally rebuild in the future... Im almost 16 right now so im kinda short on money... I've been saving for this and i just had an opportunity to go to my friends uncle who is a mechanic and install clutch, pistons, and rods and all that good stuff... bearings etc.. i figure i should just put them in to be safe. Does anybody know if or how much i will have to change the timing and what i will need to do it?
 

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thoma16 said:
Ya i no... i want it so they can take anything... i wanna have one of those really reliable muscle cars that i wont ever have to worry about. I know its a lot of money but its still cheaper than having to totally rebuild in the future... Im almost 16 right now so im kinda short on money... I've been saving for this and i just had an opportunity to go to my friends uncle who is a mechanic and install clutch, pistons, and rods and all that good stuff... bearings etc.. i figure i should just put them in to be safe. Does anybody know if or how much i will have to change the timing and what i will need to do it?
Dammit I thought i was the youngest kid on the board with a boosted 3g ;)
<-17

Did you boost it your self? I am assuming your parents bought the car for you.
 

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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
lol... no its not my everyday driver.... I made an agreement with father that its only a dry sunny day car. I've only drove it a few times... and with parents in the car i dont go crazy... usually barely any boost. I'll be careful though... I spent to much money on it to be dumb and wreck it or something.. its my baby
 

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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No i actually bought it boosted from StoicGT. Kind of yes kind of no... it was money my parents where saving for a nice car and college. I know i am a very fortunate kid..
 

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thoma16 said:
Yes... obviously the sleeves will be resurfaced or bored whichever term you like. I know that you cant just throw new pistons into an old worn sleeve. lol I only have an SAFC2, no emanage yet. I am looking for around 500 hp how ever many psi that is. Right now im at 320 hp @ 7psi.

There are no sleeves. We have iron blocks.
 

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Well here's how ignition timing works the long way:

"Advancing" ignition timing fires the spark plug earlier in relation to the crankshaft position. (I've always thought it should be named the other way around as it is fired earlier)

Lets say you're running 15 degrees BTDC ignition timing at 2000rpm just for an example. That means 15 degrees before the piston reaches top dead center, the spark plug is fired. Advancing ignition timing fires it earlier. The engine is compressing the ignited air/fuel mixture which is expanding already for a very very short amount of time. When it is compressed, it will heat up more, raising the combustion temperature and exhaust gas temperature. This is a good and a bad thing. Now, if you're running on Welches grapefruit juice gas like we're stuck with here in california, we'll run into detonation issues earlier than you east coasters do with your 93 and 94.

Retarding does the opposite. The spark plug is fired later, and less heat is made, less pressure is built up to force the piston downward.

There are other variables you can tune by. You can richen the AF ratio up to cool the combustion down, and I've also heard that cammed engines running in their best rpm range will also naturally lower EGT's too. If you're looking for an answer, I'd say it'd be a good idea to retard the ignition timing until you find an appropriate advance curve that wont chew your ring lands up.

This is the best I could put it into words for you. Anyone is welcome to add on or correct it.
 
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dam talk about being spoiled :jerkit: do you even have a part timer or just live off mommy and daddies money :uh: its all good i would hook up my kid too as long as he or her had good grades and had a part timer so they know what its like to make a dollar in real life
 

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2k1 GT @ 8psi
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ya im a good kid. I do everything for my parents all the time.. I have a summer job where i worked 3 days week w/ 8 or 9 hour days. Whats the matter with how old i am any ways. I have an eclipse and a QUESTION!!!
 

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OMFG
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ONc eyou start getting into heavy boost(15PSI and up) you need to bring that advance down a LOT.

My head gasket started leaking after only 3000miles becuase I was running about 30degrees at 15PSI. It never knocked or anything. THere is just so much pressure that it blew to a water jacket and started pressurizing the cooling system. Luckily I caught it in time before it damaged something else in my freshy built motor. It didnt even seem like it was blown but nothing could explain the constant over- pressurizing of the cooling system.

Generall you want to run only about 20degrees of timing under boost until about 10PSI @ any RPM. 15PSI and up 5degrees is probably all you should run. This is what the EVO and DSM guys run ontheir EMS'. NEedless to say, I am going to do major timing tuning tomorrow so that the new head gasket doesnt get stressed liket he first one.
 

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NAPALM said:
ONc eyou start getting into heavy boost(15PSI and up) you need to bring that advance down a LOT.

My head gasket started leaking after only 3000miles becuase I was running about 30degrees at 15PSI. It never knocked or anything. THere is just so much pressure that it blew to a water jacket and started pressurizing the cooling system. Luckily I caught it in time before it damaged something else in my freshy built motor. It didnt even seem like it was blown but nothing could explain the constant over- pressurizing of the cooling system.

Generall you want to run only about 20degrees of timing under boost until about 10PSI @ any RPM. 15PSI and up 5degrees is probably all you should run. This is what the EVO and DSM guys run ontheir EMS'. NEedless to say, I am going to do major timing tuning tomorrow so that the new head gasket doesnt get stressed liket he first one.

What kind of gasket do you have? I know you have a 4 banger, right? They come with fiber gaskets from the factory, where the 6g72 comes with metal 2 layer stainless gaskets from the factory. Those are hard to blow. If you blew up a metal one :twothumb: on your crazy exhibition of power ;)
 

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New daddy
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NAPALM said:
ONc eyou start getting into heavy boost(15PSI and up) you need to bring that advance down a LOT.

My head gasket started leaking after only 3000miles becuase I was running about 30degrees at 15PSI. It never knocked or anything. THere is just so much pressure that it blew to a water jacket and started pressurizing the cooling system. Luckily I caught it in time before it damaged something else in my freshy built motor. It didnt even seem like it was blown but nothing could explain the constant over- pressurizing of the cooling system.

Generall you want to run only about 20degrees of timing under boost until about 10PSI @ any RPM. 15PSI and up 5degrees is probably all you should run. This is what the EVO and DSM guys run ontheir EMS'. NEedless to say, I am going to do major timing tuning tomorrow so that the new head gasket doesnt get stressed liket he first one.
I don't know jack squat about ingnition tuning, but 25 degrees of retard seems a little over kill for only 15 psi. What are the EVO guys running with 25+ psi of boost, zero degrees of ignition adavance?
 
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