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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, heres my situation.

I have a 2002 eclipse RS turbo, (NGK wires, Evo 8 fuel pump, 440 cc RC injectors, big evo 3 16g turbo, external wg, aeromotive a1000-6 fpr, etc.) and for some reason, I have this weird starting up issue that only occurs AFTER my car has been warmed up.

I recently discovered this on my way to Burger King. I turned off the car, got food, went to get back in and start it and it wouldn't start. Confused, I tried pumping the gas a bit but to no avail ( It'll crank but won't start ). Decided to eat inside ( approx. 15-20 min ) and tried to start it again and, for some reason, it STARTED.

I asked around and tried to figure out what was wrong, as well as looked around online, and came to the conclusion that my ignition coils were probably being over heated and needed to cool down before it was able to start again.

I ordered NEW ignition coils, spark plugs (NGK Iridium 2 heat ranges colder, gapped to .030, the 7eix's, and new wires) I started the car today, let it run for 5-10 min, turned it off, tried starting it, and it WOULDN'T start.

I know the car needs spark as well as fuel to start. My spark plugs and coils are new, so its probably not that. Fuel might be a problem, but besides startup, I don't have any stalling issues due to a bad fpr or fuel pump. Its only a problem when I go to restart it after its been on for like 10 or so minutes. I can get it to start right up again after letting it sit for approx. 20 min.

Can anyone help me figure out whats wrong? Did I overlook something?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
heh.. oops. Thats what I forgot to mention.

Its currently EcuFlashed by a ROM that FlashBlueRS edited for me.
 

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One Sic Mic
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I'm inclined to think it's something to do with your newly flashed ROM. Before I switched to the AEM EMS I was running the e-Manage Ultimate. I would have a similar problem and it was basically frying/overheating my coil packs. I would have Flash take a look at the ROM and make sure there isn't any errors in the definitions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Shane, thanks for your input. I will definitely have to get in contact with him to double check things. Do you know the specific section in the ROM that has to be modified in order to prevent this from happening?
 

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Confused, I tried pumping the gas a bit but to no avail ( It'll crank but won't start ).
Just to ask the question, what exactly were you trying to accomplish by doing this? Were you hoping to add extra fuel (which wouldn't happen since you don't have the benefit of a mechanical accelerator pump that older vehicles with carburetors have), or were you trying to vent a build-up of gasoline vapors out of the intake manifold (which again, wouldn't serve much purpose since you have a pretty closed system, unlike the aforementioned carbureted vehicles where a build-up of fuel vapors could have exited out of the air cleaner), or ... :scratch:

As for you problem though, here are a few ideas:

Try carrying a DVOM with you and the next time it happens, check the resistence of your coil packs during your no-start condition to see if they're within range.

Have you tried adjusting your spark plug gap at all? Sometimes, little oddities like that can make a difference.

Also, I know you've replaced all the ignition parts, but have you actually check to see if you're getting spark during this no-start condition, or were you just assuming this?

Lastly, are you allowing proper cool-down time for the turbo...are you using a turbo timer, or just shutting the engine off as soon as you park without allowing the turbo to expell some of it's built-up heat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Vercetti,

I don't think my coil packs are frying; I think they're just being overheated, which would explain why (I think) I have to wait 10-15 minutes for them to cool down. Does that sound logical? I don't have too much mechanical experience, but I'm learning, so please bear with me.

Kidney,

Well when I tried pumping the gas one time it sputtered and then it started, I figured it might work again.

DVOM? Not sure what that stands for, could you clarify for me?

When I took out my old plugs, they were gapped pretty close together, so I made sure that the new ones were gapped to .030.

Haven't checked for spark when this problem occurs, how would I go about doing this?

I don't have a turbo timer but I ALWAYS wait 1 or 2 minutes before I turn the car off. I don't have to wait that long because I haven't been getting on it lately because of this problem. I drive moderately and with caution as to not damage anything else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So if in fact, the coil packs are being overheated, how would this be fixed? Is there a module or harness that should be replaced to prevent this from happening?

If it was a spark plug problem, wouldn't I have a starting problem continuously, and not just after the car was warm? ( this is why I think its an overheating coil pack, but I don't know much about cars, just going by what I've googled.. =] )
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well instead of trying to go replacing random things, I might've run into a solution; I've been going through that thread you posted vercetti, and apparently, DNS-EN says that..

"2. A bad ground ( I burnt coils when I disconnected the rear o2 sensor heater ground )"

I think this might be the problem, so I'm going to try to fix it in the next couple of days. I'll post the results...

Thanks for all your help.
 

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Ok I have done a little google searching. I found posts that talked about bad coilpacks of course. But also about overheating the starter. Im no expert but since the turbo is right around where the starter is then check to see if it is hot after driving it.
 

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Kidney,

DVOM? Not sure what that stands for, could you clarify for me?
Digital Volt-Ohm Meter...aka, multi-meter, etc.

Haven't checked for spark when this problem occurs, how would I go about doing this?
Well, one way is to pull a spark plug wire and get it near a ground (or pull the plug too and ground the end), then as you turn the car over, check to see if the spark "fires". You can also buy gadgets that you hold against a plug wire that will "show" you if you're getting spark or use an induction timing light...just to name a few ways...

I don't have a turbo timer but I ALWAYS wait 1 or 2 minutes before I turn the car off. I don't have to wait that long because I haven't been getting on it lately because of this problem. I drive moderately and with caution as to not damage anything else.
Good to hear!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the quick responses.

So I tried to ground the heater wire for my rear o2 sensor, with no luck. (to make sure, the heater GROUND wire for the rear o2 sensor is the black wire that doesn't have a voltage going through it correct? And the blue/white wires are for the o2 signals? Because on the o2 simulator thread balla, at the end, says, "The o2 ground is white and the sensor wire is blue.")

The car was on for about 10-15 minutes, I turned it off, tried starting, and the same thing happened.

My starter still tries to start the car, but the car just won't start.

I have an aeromotive fuel pressure regulator with a gauge on it; is the gauge supposed to register a reading when starting the car? I know at idle I'm at 40-43 psi, but I don't know about the psi when starting the car or when this problem occurs.

I'm thinking maybe too much voltage is going to the coil packs causing them to overheat, but I don't know why theres too much.

Shane mentioned my Flash might be causing the problem, how could I correct this in EcuFlash if the latency values are high or off? My injectors are scaled to 418; could that be the problem along with the latency?

Sorry for the long read! =D But I appreciate all of your help.
 

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i have the same fuel setup you have and i havent had the problem your are having....when you crank the car up and it dosent start,the fpr gauge should read somewhere around 20....40 to 43 PSI with the vacumm line attached or no?? thats pretty high numbers.....did you install the fuel pump yourself?...maybe you can check to see if your grommet is alright...
 

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SLUTTY IGUANA
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If you leave your ignition sitch on do your coils get hot... not just warm but like they will burn you hot?

I had a similar issue when running the emanage. Be careful. coils get expensive when you keep blowing em...

My car wouldnt start after being driven for a little while. I would have to let it cool for a few then try and start it.

I would say an EMS might be a good thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
3geclipse- I'll have to get someone to try to start my car when its not starting so I can look at the fuel pressure. 40-43psi with the vacuum attached to the fpr is what I'm seeing. As for the fuel pump, I had my friend install it so I wouldn't know where to start.

BluBlur02- I haven't tried touching the coils when it didn't start (you're talking about where the spark plug wires go into, the tops of them would get hot?) That start issue is the exact same problem I'm having, except I don't have an emanage. I'm thinking I might have to adjust the latency as well as rescale my injectors to be lower, like 385-390ish instead of 418.

And yes, coil packs are expensive; I paid $93 each, but when I found out that the coils weren't the problem, I put back my OEM coils along with my older spark plug wires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't even know what to look for when looking at ignition/timing settings.

I reflashed the car a bit ago, waited until it warmed up, and still the same fcuking problem. Tomorrow I'm going to try to check for spark when that problem happens again, but what would cause not enough spark after being warmed up?

Also, my fuel pressure reads about 20psi when the car isn't on, but it idles at around 40psi.

So I've narrowed it down to spark OR the reflash for being the problem, but now I'm leaning towards spark. I just don't understand why spark would lessen after the car is warm. If someone could please enlighten me, I would be much appreciative.

Happy Thanksgiving though. =]
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Update: After searching on the .org, I came across a thread where this guy had the same problem, everyone said it was because of bad corrosion around the battery terminals, so I tried cleaning my battery terminals with baking soda because of this problem. After, I warmed it back up, tried starting it again, and still no luck. However, I think some of the baking soda mix got into the starter because it was cranking at first, and then it was just clicking.

Going to try to start it up either later today or tomorrow to make sure everything is dry.

Oh, and for some reason, I found 2 O2 plugs that WEREN'T connected to an O2 sensor. (the one by the firewall thats supposed to be behind the passenger wheel firewall, as well as another by the passenger headlight (which I have no idea where this one goes)) I'm guessing my starting problem could be because of these, because they aren't grounded out anywhere. So where does the 2nd plug I mentioned go to?
 
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