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Please choose what your preferred configuration is

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Resident Asshole
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So the stars have finally aligned for me and I'm ready to start making single turbo kit piping. I'll be honest and Ken's post has prompted me to put a little more focus on this platform. Competition is good for the end user right? :bigthumb:

Here is the deal however. I'm not currently interested in selling an entire kit because I don't have the time or the ability to deliver the amount of support that would require. At this point in this platform's life, the information is out there about what to do and if you are serious about boosting this car I hope you've done your research. Honestly, the hardest part besides the tuning issues for putting a turbo kit together is the hot pipes. Ken was absolutely correct in that regard. The problem with selling just hot pipes is that your piping might or might not work depending on the turbo that the end user purchases. Turbos come in many different configurations, from different inlet flanges on the turbine housing (T3, T4, twin scroll T3, ts T4 etc) to different types of outlet flanges (3 bolt, 4 bolt, 5 bolt, v-band etc). The other thing is that you might have purchased a turbo that "meets the requirement" but it still doesn't work because turbine housings from different manufacturers are built to different sizes. Because of this, I need to know what YOU are interested in.

The 3G has seen turbo kits based off of either a T3 or T4 exhaust housing. The XTech kits used 5 bolt downpipe flanges with no wastegate port off the flange. AAI used a V band clamp for their downpipe. I've built kits for EVOs with just about every flange and I have to say that my honest to God preference is a V band clamp for the downpipe. Unfortunately, this comes at a price. A 2.5" V band clamp and flanges is over $70 while other flanges can be had for a fraction of this cost.

Another thing to contemplate is whether or not you want a recirculated or non recirculated wastegate. Honestly, I love the sound of an open dump and it's easier to plumb and fabricate.

So... Options that I need you to vote on so that I can start putting these things together...

T3 flanged 5 bolt housings w/ open dump (wastegate)
T3 flanged 5 bolt housings w/ recirculated wastegate
T4 flanged V band housings w/ open dump (wastegate)
T4 flanged V band housings w/ recirculated wastegate

These will be the only options I will consider making unless someone makes a very strong argument otherwise. Recirculating the wastegate will definitely drive the cost of the piping up.

Please note that my piping will be guaranteed to work only with Precision Turbos. Precision is the manufacturer of the turbo that we won a national championship with so I'm sticking with what I know works.

As an aside, I'm also willing to package this with a turbo so there is zero chance you end up purchasing a turbo that doesn't work with the piping. Pipe up and let me know what you think about that, pun intended! ;)

As another aside, the downpipe I will make will bolt up to the stock catback. There will be no cat in the piping. One can be added either later, or if you inform me when at the time of purchase, it can be added for an additional cost.

A rough estimate of what just the hotside piping will cost is about $1000. Adding a turbo into the picture can bring this figure up to $1800 or so. This figure is not set in stone and may move up or down depending on my overall expenses and yes, I will be making some money out of this for my time.

I have a motor on a stand that I'm using to mockup the Y pipe. I would appreciate some feedback on the above options so that I can complete the initial setup and show you guys some pictures.

Greg
 

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Premium Member
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Honest to goodness truth I prefer the recirculated route due to the noise factor...

Not sure what the end result, PSI, wise is going to be on our build but I don't feel like having a banshee of a wastegate under the hood whenever push it...

V-band, more expensive yes but I trust you have more experience there... Haha you would probably be the one I would ask preference why since you're working on my car...

My:twocent:

~Mike

PS: Great to hear you're finally going to be pushing these out
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Mike, you are local so whatever we do with your car will be easy to make customized to fit. I'll be doing the install so makes thing go a bit smoother than shipping out a set of pipes to someone putting together a pieced together kit.

You guys are teh suck at voting. 3 votes... lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What happened to the 4g64 kit??
Waiting on the final parts to complete the AWD swap on the car that we installed the kit on. Since he was an auto, tuning became an issue. Once we get that tuned, I'll start producing 4 banger kits.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What are the advantages of the V band vs 5 bolt?
A V band clamp doesn't suffer from bolts backing out, something we experienced a lot this past year in road racing EVOs. It's also easier to install as there is one clamp to tighten instead of 5 bolts.

Russ, the only way I could do that is if every kit was custom made. I might have to do that anyways considering the low volume of this product.
 

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"Suck my unit"
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T4 or go home. Offer a recirc and non recirc option.
+1. With T4 theres more options for turbo's and also Id rather have the WG recirculated instead of being dumped. It does sound nice but eventually it gets annoying and I have sometimes seen the WG dump melt hoses/wires, etc. The less hot open running pipes in the engine bay the better.

What price range would these hot pipes fall into if you dont mind me asking?
 

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Kampfbereit
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A V band clamp doesn't suffer from bolts backing out, something we experienced a lot this past year in road racing EVOs. It's also easier to install as there is one clamp to tighten instead of 5 bolts.

Russ, the only way I could do that is if every kit was custom made. I might have to do that anyways considering the low volume of this product.
Isn't that the truth. The price point of this kit would be out of most people's price range, as a lesson learned from the last time I distributed turbo kits. Perhaps we should just get together for real and design a kit together. Now that I'm pretty much out of the woods from the last stupor I'm in a better position than I have been. Jimmie has still yet to make good on any word.
 

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A bit off topic, but would the turbos from Precision Turbos fit on the rectangular inlet flange that the Turbonetics turbo sits on with AAI's kit?

Any plans for exhaust manifolds?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A bit off topic, but would the turbos from Precision Turbos fit on the rectangular inlet flange that the Turbonetics turbo sits on with AAI's kit?

Any plans for exhaust manifolds?
Donny must have used different flanges for his turbo kits. Rob's kit has a circular T4 inlet flange. I also think you are a bit confused about what you are talking about. The flange on your kit is most likely a T4. The difference in them could be if the flange opening was rectangular, round or divided. You can technically bolt any T4 turbo to that flange but flow won't be optimal unless they match. Rob's turbo is a regular T4 but the flange on his piping was a round inlet flange.

I guess that's a long way about trying to say that the turbo from either company should bolt to the same flange from the collector pipe. The issue is whether or not the downpipe will work as the housings could be different on the outlet side. The inlet will always match whatever specification that is universal.

I have a set of manifolds that are partly constructed at this point but they aren't for a single turbo kit. My baby is getting some special R&D right now. I don't know if I'll ever market a twin kit as from the amount of time just the manifolds are taking, I'd probably charge $8k for a complete kit. I highly doubt anyone would drop that kind of coin. However, your comment sparked an idea. I could always make manifolds that match the stock 3 bolt flange position so that it would bolt up to any existing turbo kit or N/A downpipe on the market.

Thanks for the idea. :)

Russ, I think we both know I'd probably rather just build the stuff and let you deal with the end user. Maybe you can buy hot pipes from me and sell it as a kit. ;) It's what we've talked about now for years. I'm just finally getting off my lazy ass, or rather I finally have the proper skill set and equipment to do it. :lol:
 

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Turbo/Haltech V6
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The problem with the GCT piping is that the 2.5" down pipe fits pretty tight were it goes. I'd like to get a 3" down pipe fabricated for it but It will not fit without moidifying some of the other piping. I wonder how your hot pipes will be routed. I think a 3" down pipe is a must.
 

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Shocker Lite
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Greg,

In all honesty, I'm glad to see you're coming out with a set of hot pipes for the 3g. I made my first set of "hot pipes" for my friend's 3000gt SL last week, and man was it a PITA. Having a dedicated shop and in-house bender, not to mention proper financial backing would make hell of a difference. Lets face it, compared to your company I'm just a glorified welder. In actuality, its easier and more cost-effective for me just to do odd jobs for people than to produce these pipe sets commercially. I was considering making them because nobody is currently producing them and there is a need for them, unfortunately there isn't as big of a market as I thought. No offense to anyone, but there are a lot more talkers than do-er's out there.

I wish you the best of luck (and least amount of complications!) in developing these pipes. Your 4 cylinder turbo setup looks great, I have no doubts your 6 cylinder setup will be just as awesome.

-Ken
 

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Donny must have used different flanges for his turbo kits. Rob's kit has a circular T4 inlet flange. I also think you are a bit confused about what you are talking about. The flange on your kit is most likely a T4. The difference in them could be if the flange opening was rectangular, round or divided. You can technically bolt any T4 turbo to that flange but flow won't be optimal unless they match. Rob's turbo is a regular T4 but the flange on his piping was a round inlet flange.
Yeah, I need to work on my terms - I was just hoping that I wasn't stuck with just using Turbonetics turbos - here is a pic of what I was referring to:



...I could always make manifolds that match the stock 3 bolt flange position so that it would bolt up to any existing turbo kit or N/A downpipe on the market...
Actually that was what I was hoping for :hspin:
 

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Turbo Buick > you
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Single turbo kit would be the easiest to make in the case of this community. You could just use the stock exhaust manifolds, fabricate a crossover pipe to the front, and mount the turbo infront of the thermostat housing, just like the GCT kit was. Really only 2 pipes need to be made to do this.

One nice thing about the 5 bolt DP flange is the possibility for internal wastegates, which help keep costs down a bit. I do agree that a v-band flanged setup is a hell of a lot easier to handle, all be it a more expensive solution.

V-band DP and a t4 flange is the way to go.
 
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