RIPP Base Tunes

1167 Views 17 Replies 7 Participants Last post by repforenzo, Jun 20, 2008

MarkSpyder

Discussion Starter · Jun 17, 2008

Anybody have a copy of the tunes that come with the Black Box or Grey Box? I am in need of one as my used box came with NO data in the ROM/tune/file or whatever it is called. When I log onto the box it shows zero data in the fields. I assume this means the file was deleted? I can't even start the car without some kind of tune. I need one for a Stage 1 set up but will need one for Stage 2 at some point. When I check the Ripp CD for a 3G file I don't see one. Looks like they only have a 4G tune on it. Can anyone help me out?

In case it matters my mods are listed in my signature.

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

HIJACKER

· #2 · Jun 17, 2008

To my knowledge (I could be wrong), but those boxes "learn" and automatically adjust based on the information being fed to them from the car and ECU. When you first start the car, it will run pretty shitty for the first 15 minutes while everything adjusts itself, and from there - it continues to learn and adjust as you drive the vehicle.

This process repeats itself and the boxes will dump any memory of what it learned when you pull the battery

Any changes you would make would be directly to the ROM file on the ECU, not the Ripp boxes. The ECU .bin file WILL maintain the changed settings you do to it.

Think of the ECU as a ROM, and the Ripp boxes as RAM.

LogicGate

· #3 · Jun 17, 2008

ROM = Read "only" Memory (fixed memory, doesn't get erased)

Hey guys, I'm still working on the GT ROM for boost. I just hardly have time

The downside is that there won't be A rom, but a patch. But its coming along, just not enough time.

Question... You guys think the timing and Fuel map tables with timing data above 100 Load will be enough? is there any other function you guys think it should have (realistic)?

I like the patch the guys came out with on evolutionm.net for the evo rom to blink the CEL light when there is knock (very very cool and useful). I like to disable the knock sensor and just have the CEL Light flash when there is knock. :idunno: That way you have control over the engine and not have the ECU mess around with the timing and maps when there is knock.

PharmEcis

· #4 · Jun 18, 2008

I'd much rather have the knock sensor pull timing. That will absolutely save your engine. There is a reason it is there and it should not be disabled. However, illuminating the CEL is always a good idea so you know what is going on.

There are some boost maps that would be nice to have but that would be a serious hack to implement probably.

I haven't been up to date on things, point me to a link where you discuss your 100% load solution please?

MarkSpyder

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jun 18, 2008

HIJACKER said:
Think of the ECU as a ROM, and the Ripp boxes as RAM.

That makes sense... and I am happy to hear I don't have to hunt down some freakin missing file. Many thanks! Can't say I am happy about it having to relearn everytime the battery is disconnected but I guess I will manage to live with that (or find a way to feed it 12V before disconnecting battery power).

I guess I am just suprised that a device of this cost doesn't have ROM. I feel like it should have both ROM and RAM. Anways, thanks again! Time to hook this puppy up.

skinnyGT

· #6 · Jun 18, 2008

PharmEcis said:
I'd much rather have the knock sensor pull timing. That will absolutely save your engine. There is a reason it is there and it should not be disabled. However, illuminating the CEL is always a good idea so you know what is going on.

exactly what i was thinking.

you've been able to read past 100% load?

ahspimp023

· #7 · Jun 18, 2008

Tuning Software :dunno: ??

MarkSpyder

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 18, 2008

ahspimp023 said:
Tuning Software :dunno: ??

?

ahspimp023

· #9 · Jun 18, 2008

Haha I know it was not on the subject of this thread but im looking to get the black box tuning CD.

MarkSpyder

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 18, 2008

So I think now I am even more confused... What is the point of the tuning software if the BB simply adjusts itself to the readings it gets from the ECU/sensors once the SDS install is completed? It sounds like it tunes itself. :dunno:

LogicGate

· #11 · Jun 18, 2008

PharmEcis said:
I'd much rather have the knock sensor pull timing. That will absolutely save your engine. There is a reason it is there and it should not be disabled. However, illuminating the CEL is always a good idea so you know what is going on.

There are some boost maps that would be nice to have but that would be a serious hack to implement probably.

I haven't been up to date on things, point me to a link where you discuss your 100% load solution please?

I have not created a thread about it, but if you pm I will fill you in on what I have done. If I create a thread it would turn into a mess and I don't have time to work on it non-stop. I agree with you on the knock sensor, but its easier to tune while its disabled (still works and gives you readings, just not taken into account for processing Timing, Fuel, etc corrections). Then enable it afterwords to protect the engine.

skinnyGT said:
exactly what i was thinking.

you've been able to read past 100% load?

There are ways of doing it right now, but is not efficient since you have limited control. I assume thats why no one has posted the information.

PharmEcis

· #12 · Jun 19, 2008

The problem here is that Steve is a moron and some things he should really keep quiet on such as this.

The BB is programmable. It is not RAM, it's ROM. Just like the ECU found in our cars, you write to the EPROM found on the BB. That is stored there and is not erased when you turn your car off or uninstall it. It is not RAM or it would be deleted every time power was removed from it.

The learn in process is not the BB learning but rather the stock ECU relearning how to deal with what is now a shitty piggyback connected and altering the data that the ECU sees. The initial black box used MAF manipulation in order to adjust fuel. This is NOT the proper way to control fuel delivery. Basically you are making the stock ECU believe that there is much less air entering the engine than there is in order to reduce the amount of fuel delivered by larger aftermarket injectors. With the supplemenatal fuel system, the BB does limited MAF manipulation, mostly when you are actually in boost. The output from the BB controls the supplemental injectors adding fuel when necessary by triggering those injectors.

Bottom line, you need the software and the cable to tune the BB just like any piggyback. It is afterall simply the Perfect Power SMT-6. Ripp has several "base" maps in circulation. For the most part they have a tune for each version of the kit and some people who have been tuned by them have customized BB tunes.

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PharmEcis

· #13 · Jun 19, 2008

Oh and Steve, I still love you but you are still a goober.

HIJACKER

· #14 · Jun 19, 2008

PharmEcis said:
Oh and Steve, I still love you but you are still a goober.

I did say this... :wub:

HIJACKER said:
To my knowledge (I could be wrong), but those boxes "learn" and automatically adjust based on the information being fed to them from the car and ECU. When you first start the car, it will run pretty shitty for the first 15 minutes while everything adjusts itself, and from there - it continues to learn and adjust as you drive the vehicle.

This process repeats itself and the boxes will dump any memory of what it learned when you pull the battery

Any changes you would make would be directly to the ROM file on the ECU, not the Ripp boxes. The ECU .bin file WILL maintain the changed settings you do to it.

Think of the ECU as a ROM, and the Ripp boxes as RAM.

LogicGate

· #15 · Jun 19, 2008 (Edited)

PharmEcis said:
The problem here is that Steve is a moron and some things he should really keep quiet on such as this.

The BB is programmable. It is not RAM, it's ROM. Just like the ECU found in our cars, you write to the EPROM found on the BB. That is stored there and is not erased when you turn your car off or uninstall it. It is not RAM or it would be deleted every time power was removed from it.

The learn in process is not the BB learning but rather the stock ECU relearning how to deal with what is now a shitty piggyback connected and altering the data that the ECU sees. The initial black box used MAF manipulation in order to adjust fuel. This is NOT the proper way to control fuel delivery. Basically you are making the stock ECU believe that there is much less air entering the engine than there is in order to reduce the amount of fuel delivered by larger aftermarket injectors. With the supplemenatal fuel system, the BB does limited MAF manipulation, mostly when you are actually in boost. The output from the BB controls the supplemental injectors adding fuel when necessary by triggering those injectors.

Bottom line, you need the software and the cable to tune the BB just like any piggyback. It is afterall simply the Perfect Power SMT-6. Ripp has several "base" maps in circulation. For the most part they have a tune for each version of the kit and some people who have been tuned by them have customized BB tunes.

We can actually do that with ECU Flash with the MAF settings, thats what I referred in the past post. But never heard or seen anyone "actually" use it since we loose and compress the available fuel/timing maps. Have you tried that or know anyone that has??

I've never had the chance to play with it with boost on a 3G.

Edited:
Correction I know it has been tried, but have not seen any data for it or results.

MarkSpyder

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jun 19, 2008

Many thanks Pharm. I guess I'm not going crazy after all :yesway:

Anyone got a base map for the SDS kit using 310s and no SFS?

PharmEcis

· #17 · Jun 20, 2008 (Edited)

LogicGate said:
We can actually do that with ECU Flash with the MAF settings, thats what I referred in the past post. But never heard or seen anyone "actually" use it since we loose and compress the available fuel/timing maps. Have you tried that or know anyone that has??

I've never had the chance to play with it with boost on a 3G.

Edited:
Correction I know it has been tried, but have not seen any data for it or results.

If I gather what you are saying properly, you are basically wanting to adjust the MAF scalar for g/s. My personal opinion is that would not work out well because MAF manipulation simply is not the solution for a boosted application. With these modern EFI engines, the computer must absolutely know what is truly going on without having some sort of manipulated sensory input.

It is my belief that the simplest form of getting an ECU that would understand boost for the 3G would be to get the ROM from a 99 3000GT VR4 and then flash it onto a 2000 Fed spec manual ECU. Any other option requires a rewrite of most likely a pretty significant section of the ROM to change the calculations for load allowing greater than 100% scalability.

I simply have not had the time or resources to proceed on this idea but I'm 95% sure it would work.

And for the record, if anyone ever manages to get the above solution to work... It's something I've thought would work since shortly after ECUFlash became available for the 3G and H8 processor support would finally work.

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repforenzo

· #18 · Jun 20, 2008

LogicGate said:
Question... You guys think the timing and Fuel map tables with timing data above 100 Load will be enough? is there any other function you guys think it should have (realistic)?

In a word, 'yes'. If you can get this ECU to understand the data to process beyond 100% Load, then you would not need much else. Maybe a knock sensor filter map if anything. Everyone knows that the stock MAF and the MAP 'see' when the car is boosted, so the data is there during boost. I'm pissed that the RS/GS guys get to see beyond 100% with their EVO ROMs. I hope you can make it happen. Just no disabling of the knock sensor codes... not that you would.

NC[Spyder]GT you might have to call Ripp to get the base tune.

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