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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys and girls,
I know TONS of newbies ask this and I havent found any that get a straight answer. I have done HOURS of research so I am not blindly asking questions. Guys who just want to flame me feel free but keep it to a minimum and please give some helpful advice with it. Let this thread be a reference point for future inquirers who wish to know what modifications are required or strongly suggested before mounting a turbo.

So far i've heard all kinds of different things about forged pistons and turbo manifolds, exhaust systems ect. I am planning on installing larger injectors and am wondering what you suggest for that. I am planning on buying the kit from http://www.importperformanceparts.net/ and I was wondering if the Garrett T28 BB is way too big. Is this a good kit? Ha sanybody had bad experiences with this company? I know to get the money first and I want to know what to spend it on. I know all about the SBS supercharger. If anybody has had experience with BOTH the SBS AND a turbo please feel free to share some info.

A full list that can be used as a reference would be great. Please only list if you are sure what you are talking about. If this works out than anybody else who asks this question can be sent to this thread. Once again, A FULL list of required and suggested mods before installing a turbo. Please keep flaming and bs to a minimum. To the experienced guys that help, thank you so much for being patient and cooperative and helping make 3g a better place.
 

· Resident Asshole
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look through the fi members sticky at the top of the fi forums. and its SDS not SBS. no one on this boards has used that kit yet. without any pictures its hard to say if the kit is any good. and if you haven't figured out what is needed yet then you haven't searched enough because i know it is all on here because all of us talk openly about what breaks and what we've upgraded. and it takes more than hours to learn about FI
 

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i agree with crow if you still have no idea what to get you havent searched but ill give you a short list of stuff you can do before hand. Motor mounts, exhaust, clutch, lsd if you plan on doing hard launches.

If you want to be the test dummy for that kit. I say go for it but dont complain when stuff starts going wrong
 

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thahnic1080 said:
i agree with crow if you still have no idea what to get you havent searched but ill give you a short list of stuff you can do before hand. Motor mounts, exhaust, clutch, lsd if you plan on doing hard launches.

If you want to be the test dummy for that kit. I say go for it but dont complain when stuff starts going wrong
Parhaps more info on the clutch suggestion.

While doing all the preliminary work, we all know a long time can elapse until we actually get to the turbo part. Can someone in the know comment on the issue with respect to a turbo wanting a 3" exhaust but if we did a 3" exhaust in our prep work, the NA car wouldn't run well. Am I :confused: ?
 

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NoQuarter said:
Parhaps more info on the clutch suggestion.

While doing all the preliminary work, we all know a long time can elapse until we actually get to the turbo part. Can someone in the know comment on the issue with respect to a turbo wanting a 3" exhaust but if we did a 3" exhaust in our prep work, the NA car wouldn't run well. Am I :confused: ?
You will lose a little power with a 3inch exhaust N/A but if you definitely plan on going FI there is no point in having to pay for an exhaust system twice when you will need that money if something breaks. If your worried about driveability issues there are none with a 3inch on an N/A car, I was using the Injen SES 3inch exhaust before I went FI. N/A the exhaust will be VERY quiet with the stock exhaust manifolds.
 

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NoQuarter said:
Parhaps more info on the clutch suggestion.

While doing all the preliminary work, we all know a long time can elapse until we actually get to the turbo part. Can someone in the know comment on the issue with respect to a turbo wanting a 3" exhaust but if we did a 3" exhaust in our prep work, the NA car wouldn't run well. Am I :confused: ?
thats where the searching part comes in and what crow meant was to look at the FI check in and look at everybody mods
 

· Kampfbereit
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There is no easy answer to this question because it depends on a lot of varrying factors and one of those main factors is to determine what actually comes with the kit.

To do a complete turbo conversion it's highly recommended that you build the engine with pistons at the very least from the get go. Also you will need to get colder spark plugs, and we recommend using the Zex plugs or 2 heat ranges colder will be fine as well. The stock engine, properly tuned handles about 300 wheel horse power before the ring lands come apart. I managed to go 40K miles without this happening being tuned at 8psi putting down 275 sporty whp (roughly 295 5spd whp). I surmise using a T28 that the heat build up alone will cause a premature engine failure, good tune or not.

Get a disc clutch. 90% of the people here will benefit the most from using a disc clutch. The V6 ACT disc clutch kit bears 410ft lbs of torque and not too many people here have gone above that yet. There are puck clutches, but the engagement is harsh and using one will most likely result in needing a LSD

Finally, it is a great idea to get a boost gauge and grab a wideband and even a EGT as well.

We have also found that a fuel pump is not necessary if you are directly manipulating the injector signals with an e-manage or ECU Reflash
 

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Tearstone said:
There is no easy answer to this question because it depends on a lot of varrying factors and one of those main factors is to determine what actually comes with the kit.

To do a complete turbo conversion it's highly recommended that you build the engine with pistons at the very least from the get go. Also you will need to get colder spark plugs, and we recommend using the Zex plugs or 2 heat ranges colder will be fine as well. The stock engine, properly tuned handles about 300 wheel horse power before the ring lands come apart. I managed to go 40K miles without this happening being tuned at 8psi putting down 275 sporty whp (roughly 295 5spd whp). I surmise using a T28 that the heat build up alone will cause a premature engine failure, good tune or not.

Get a disc clutch. 90% of the people here will benefit the most from using a disc clutch. The V6 ACT disc clutch kit bears 410ft lbs of torque and not too many people here have gone above that yet. There are puck clutches, but the engagement is harsh and using one will most likely result in needing a LSD

Finally, it is a great idea to get a boost gauge and grab a wideband and even a EGT as well.

We have also found that a fuel pump is not necessary if you are directly manipulating the injector signals with an e-manage or ECU Reflash

and this commercial was brought to you by...:rolleyes:
 

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Tearstone said:
We have also found that a fuel pump is not necessary if you are directly manipulating the injector signals with an e-manage or ECU Reflash
for what boost levels? lets see the math on the stock pump you came up with to back that up or is it just a wag?

its been awhile but is the stock V6 pump 180lph?
 

· Kampfbereit
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TheFranchise said:
for what boost levels? lets see the math on the stock pump you came up with to back that up or is it just a wag?

its been awhile but is the stock V6 pump 180lph?
Are you sure the stock fuel pump is 180? I'm curious as to where that is stated. All I know is that it takes less effort to tune it with the stock pump in the car. Instead of setting injector correction to 30% per say, you would set it at 20% at a given TPSvsRPM selection.

But after years of people believing you need a fuel pump, I don't expect anyone to accept what I'm saying. The fuel pump is essential in pressure based tuning, like where you are putting extreme amounts of pressure on the rail with an FMU and whatnot. This is just what Donny learned from tuning cars over time on the dyno.
 

· Kampfbereit
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Rulez said:
In my experiences with fuel pumps, I ran my car at the track wth the stocker and kept getting fuel cut. After putting in a Walboro, all that stopped.

Thats enough for me to say that someone should get one.
That was because you were not running an e-manage and butchering your MAS signal. :bigthumb:
 

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ok now im confused you say its harder to tune with a upgraded fuel pump installed. Im using ecu flash instead of emange, so when you say setting injector correction 20% instead of 30% its throwing me off. Say im using 440's and im changing it on the flash it would come up 443 correct???
 

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Tearstone said:
Are you sure the stock fuel pump is 180? I'm curious as to where that is stated. All I know is that it takes less effort to tune it with the stock pump in the car. Instead of setting injector correction to 30% per say, you would set it at 20% at a given TPSvsRPM selection.

But after years of people believing you need a fuel pump, I don't expect anyone to accept what I'm saying. The fuel pump is essential in pressure based tuning, like where you are putting extreme amounts of pressure on the rail with an FMU and whatnot. This is just what Donny learned from tuning cars over time on the dyno.
so its a wag.

for starters i "think" the stock is 180lph; could be 160lph. i forget.

if you were to run 6 x 440cc injectors the output at wot would be 159lph output. the next logical thing would be to add in 10-15% safety margin since the max pump output will fall over time among other things that will reduce output. so 159lph required + 15% safety margin = 182lph output. we already see we WELL OVER maxed out our stock 160lph (or whatever it is) and we are assuming 80% IDC as well.

as far as fuel cut on a mas signal, you will only see that if you are ADDING (+) signal. you should never be having to add a signal at WOT if you are mas bending. that is a sure sign you fuel system is way underpowered and/or sized.

the walbro presents other challenges for tuning b/c the ouput is so great that the stock regulator orfice size is severly limited and restricts fuel pressure in the fuel rail, causing over rich conditions. you need to remove the stock regulator and run a AFPR. you also need to modify the plastic return line on the fuel canister. the small stock fuel regulator was a problem for 1g/2g and still a problem with 3g. stock regulator can not flow enough fuel for a walbro.

overunning a fuel pump will blow motors. period.
 

· Kampfbereit
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TheFranchise said:
for starters i "think" the stock is 180lph; could be 160lph. i forget.
Well, what is the stock one rated at? It's a moot point on your behalf if your just "thinking" what it is.

All this time we always thought the stock injectors were 210cc, and according to what the ECU flash reads we have 220cc injectors.
 

· Kampfbereit
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Rulez said:
No, I still had an AFC after the fuel pump install. I didnt install the E-Manage till long after I got the fuel pump.

I have corrected you on this more than once :lol:
You didn't read what I said. I said you were butchering your MAS signal (see SAFC), your side of the arguement is moot since you were not running an e-manage at the time meaning you never ran the stock pump with the e-manage so how do you know that you would have run into the same issue?

If nothing else, I can get Donny in here to explain it more in detail.
 

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Tearstone said:
Well, what is the stock one rated at? It's a moot point on your behalf if your just "thinking" what it is.

All this time we always thought the stock injectors were 210cc, and according to what the ECU flash reads we have 220cc injectors.
dont moot me. i dont sell FI kits for a living :fawk: you should know this more than me :deal:

3kgt pumps are 180lph. i can guarentee our pumps are 180lph then. eve so and even less moot, the #'s i ran still speak; you cant build a safe and reliable fuel system without a good fuel pump and if obviously dont know what safe #'s are if you never calculated them.
 
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