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AEM EMS Tuning

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#21 ·
steadly2004 said:
OK, thats your guys' perogative. And I can see your view of it. Why should someone else get something that you worked hard for?

I feel different. Its not like if you share information you loose it. I have spent lots of time working out my tune, and I would quickly share it for the interest of the 3g community. I spent hours to figure out how to delete the immobilizer myself, and wouldn't think of charging or saying for people to figure it out themselves. I just think we 4g64 need all the help we can get to compete with other platforms, and we should help eachother.
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We are not saying not to help each other out. We can help you tune the car. But each car is different and needs slightly different settings and tunes. So why then we should get blamed for something if it goes wrong when we gave up our tune. I see people paying "qualified tuners" for the maps, and even some tuners lock the maps so the buyer can't change them. So yeah it is peoples hard work and money, and sometimes its best not to give them up for nothing. You payed for the maps, why shouldn't someone else? Its not like tuners of any company are giving up their maps or tunes for free all the time.
 
#23 ·
steadly2004 said:
OK, thats your guys' perogative. And I can see your view of it. Why should someone else get something that you worked hard for?

I feel different. Its not like if you share information you loose it. I have spent lots of time working out my tune, and I would quickly share it for the interest of the 3g community. I spent hours to figure out how to delete the immobilizer myself, and wouldn't think of charging or saying for people to figure it out themselves. I just think we 4g64 need all the help we can get to compete with other platforms, and we should help eachother.
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Im willing to help with whatever I can.
If someone has a legitimate question that I know the answer to, im glad to provide the answer.

But; im not in competition with anyone, and im not giving my cal to anyone. :)

Besides, when someone says "I thought the ems was supposed to be plug and play, check a few boxes and have a perfect tune." and state that they have no idea how to use the software, they really shouldnt even have their laptop NEAR their CAR much less trying to tune it. Im not being a dick, just stating facts while trying to help prevent another blown up engine.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
hrm, I put the stock basemap that's provided with the EMS for the 2.4L eclipse on my EMS but the car won't start, (the car ran fine with the stock ecu). but I'm also getting some sort of error about " version" not a valid AEM EMS..? If anyone has a better basemap image that would be nice, I need to get the car running so I can drive it to the tuning shop.
 
#26 ·
awalp said:
hrm, I put the stock basemap that's provided with the EMS for the 2.4L eclipse on my EMS but the car won't start, (the car ran fine with the stock ecu). but I'm also getting some sort of error about " version" not a valid AEM EMS..? If anyone has a better basemap image that would be nice, I need to get the car running so I can drive it to the tuning shop.
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The startup calibration for our cars (1312 Eclipse.V1.19.cal) isn't anything like a proper boosted EMS calibration. I recently loaded up that calibration and attempted to make my own base map from scratch, and there are a lot of changes that need to be made. If you're planning on taking it to a dyno shop anyways, why not have it towed there instead of risking it?

If you're so insistent on getting it started on your own, I can *attempt* to make a calibration that will get your car started. Even if it starts, you better drive STRAIGHT to the dyno shop, and you better have a passenger with their eyes glued to your air/fuel ratio and knock sensor voltage readouts.
 
#27 ·
Clipse3GT said:
We are not saying not to help each other out. We can help you tune the car. But each car is different and needs slightly different settings and tunes. So why then we should get blamed for something if it goes wrong when we gave up our tune. I see people paying "qualified tuners" for the maps, and even some tuners lock the maps so the buyer can't change them. So yeah it is peoples hard work and money, and sometimes its best not to give them up for nothing. You payed for the maps, why shouldn't someone else? Its not like tuners of any company are giving up their maps or tunes for free all the time.
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I agree with you man. I appreciate all the help you have given me with the Haltech E8 tuning. Like you said, since every car is different, the guys tuning my car had to change most of the stuff to get the car to start and to run right. The best way to get a car tuned right is taking the car to a qualified tuner shop.
 
#28 ·
That version error sounds like a firmware/basemap version mismatch issue.
Make sure your firmware and basemap are of the same version.

And yea, as you have found, the basemap wont get your car running. It needs a lot of changes to make it run right.
I can send you a basemap that might make it run. Let me know if you want to try it.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
hmm, I look into the firmware, but I was trying to use the basemap off the cd and I haven't changed the firmware

as for the basemap goes, with the stock ecu, the car runs just fine and is tuned manually/mechanically for 8.5psi. So I'm needing a basemap that will have the car running as if it was stock, for some reason the basemap on the cd, with it my car won't start.

but to save some money I'd like to get it running with the 577cc injectors instead of the 370ish rising rate ones I have now, with the aeromotive FPR instead of the SFMU, and then take it to the shop so I don't have to fork over way too much an hour for labor for something I can do myself.
 
#30 ·
awalp said:
as for the basemap goes, with the stock ecu, the car runs just fine and is tuned manually/mechanically for 8.5psi. So I'm needing a basemap that will have the car running as if it was stock, for some reason the basemap on the cd, with it my car won't start.
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For the 3rd time, this is because the Startup Calibration for the AEM EMS won't necessarily get your car started. The fuel map on the Startup Calibration is tuned for stock 3G injectors, not 370cc's. My guess is that with the EMS, your car is running way too rich and that's why it won't start. The EMS doesn't configure itself. You must be able to get it close on your own, then fine-tune it from there. My suggestion is that you drive it to the dyno shop using the stock ECU, then swap it out for the EMS after you're already on the drums, then have them build you a proper startup calibration and tune it.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
hrm, what I was getting at before was my car runs just fine with the stock unmodified ecu, I can reset it and it starts right up, the ecu is running as if the injectors are normal but I have the fuel manually adjusted. Basically if the AEM can run as a stock ecu it should run, unless the stock ecu adjusts slightly here and there more than the EMS can.

I've been running on a stock unmodified ecu for 3+ years with 370cc injectors with no problems, the whole point of the EMS is for 14psi tuning with much larger injectors and gear sensitive boost regulation. oh an the annoying check engine light to go away. =]


with 370ish rising rate injectors, they are essentially stock at idle, but only under boost do they allow in more fuel, which goes along with the air, but all of that is non-computer controlled.
 
#32 ·
I have never heard of "rising rate injectors"


All injectors are listed at a specific fuel pressure, and duty cycle.

I think that all injectors would put out less fuel at idle when open for a given amount of time. And with a rising rate FPR, they would equally increase the fuel corrosponding to fuel pressure which is related to the manifold pressure.


I just don't understand how you could possibly have rising rate injectors without having them be specially modified somehow to change the amount that is sprayed at any given situation
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
they're the crazy A.A.I. Injectors, I've always been told they were unique, mainly because no one knows exactly what they are, and unlike normal fuel injectors which need 1psi of fuel pressure per 1lbs of boost, these need 95-100psi of fuel pressure at 8.5lbs of boost. idle/vacuum being around 27-32psi fuel pressure.

that's how they're able to run fine with a bone stock ecu, but complete mechanical fuel tuning/regulation
 
#34 ·
awalp said:
they're the crazy A.A.I. Injectors, I've always been told they were unique, mainly because no one knows exactly what they are, and unlike normal fuel injectors which need 1psi of fuel pressure per 1lbs of boost, these need 95-100psi of fuel pressure at 8.5lbs of boost. idle/vacuum being around 27-32psi fuel pressure.

that's how they're able to run fine with a bone stock ecu, but complete mechanical fuel tuning/regulation
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Well that's awfully strange. In this case, the startup calibration for the EMS should be close enough. Did you try upgrading the firmware yet?
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
I'm gonna try that next, my best guess right now is that the ems doesn't actually have a complete .cal on it or the firmware isn't loading it. Kinda strange that the cd version wouldn't match the ems they sent with it.
 
#36 ·
Download the latest software off of AEM's website!
 
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#37 ·
awalp said:
they're the crazy A.A.I. Injectors, I've always been told they were unique, mainly because no one knows exactly what they are, and unlike normal fuel injectors which need 1psi of fuel pressure per 1lbs of boost, these need 95-100psi of fuel pressure at 8.5lbs of boost. idle/vacuum being around 27-32psi fuel pressure.

that's how they're able to run fine with a bone stock ecu, but complete mechanical fuel tuning/regulation
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Woah Woah Woah!

95 to 100 psi at 8.5 lbs of boost!?!?! Even a walbro 255 high pressure can't keep up with that! Flow rates SIGNIFICANTLY drop off as fuel pressure increases! Heck Walbro's have a protection circuit built into the pump that don't even allow that! Something my friend is EXTREMELY odd.

Here is a hint, the easiest way to get an AEM dialed in is to first get the base map working with stock injectors. Once you've done that, then put in the larger injectors and adjust the basemap!
 
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#39 ·
It just sounds weird to me. But...if it works who can argue with it? As long as you're getting the fuel your engine needs and not leaning out, then good.

I think it would be easier to setup a tune if you had "normal" injectors. But that is just a judgement call whether or not you're willing to spend extra money on injectors just to tune easier. You could get a larger size while you're at it, if you decided to get a new set.
 
#40 ·
awalp said:
back a long time ago that's how A.A.I. designed the turbo kit, 370 rising rate injectors.

and my walbro has yet to die on me, so they have to be good.
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No injector is rising rate. All injectors have a fixed flow rate. The only thing that would be rising rate is a fuel pressure regulator and the pill you install determines the ratio of boost vs fuel pressure.
 
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