i have an 01 lowered gt. I just went to replace the back brakes and noticed that the insides of the tires were almost to the belts :ugh: . I'm putting new tires on today but would like to know if i should and what kind of camber kit to get? Any suggestions?
01rippeclipse
Yes, go to Road Race Engineerings web site, they sell a Rear Camber Kit for our cars, works great, your car will need to be aligned afterwards still...
...This should fix your tire problem.
...This should fix your tire problem.
If you're lowered 2" or more both front and rear camber kits would be beneficial. Otherwise just the rear kit would be fine.
we have a home made rear camber kit in the How To section. Is this one not recommended? Seems a lot cheaper than buying one from RRE. Anyone use and like the homemade version?
interesting, have been lowered for many years & have had several alignments/realignments & never had a problem with the above mentioned alignment problems. let alone unusual tire wear. of course i'm a fanatic when it comes to tire pressures & probably check mine more often than average.
of course every vehicle is going to be somewhat diff.
might be tire size, suspension mods..........?
of course every vehicle is going to be somewhat diff.
might be tire size, suspension mods..........?
I heard that the Eibach Camer kits were just a big pain in the ass... This true? Is it just better to go with the RRE?
is the RRE camber kit better then a home made one? has anyone had experience with either. also, does the home made only work for the rear and not the front. thanks in advance
..So you have the kit? Did you install it yourself? I am going to take my car to the dealership to have them do an allyment and they will prob install it.. I just want to have it ready for when I take it in..darklink said:
:scratch:...So what your telling me is now I ahve to find where to get a set at.darklink said:
You can get the eibach camber kit on tirerack.com. Hey I thought you were going with the prokit. You shouldnt need one for that setup. I had mine on for 15,000 miles and I didnt have any unusual wear.ICEMAN99TURBO said::scratch:...So what your telling me is now I ahve to find where to get a set at.
I am going with Prokit....LUNAR said:
:agreed:darklink said:
If you want to do it right... Which I do
My thoughts on this, for what it's worth:
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If you don't know much about camber, and don't want to know much, get the RRE kit and go for it. It's extra cost, but it will save you a lot of guesswork and wondering if you've done things correctly. If you like to tinker, do it yourself.
METRIC BOLT GRADES: People need to understand that an "8.8" bolt is *not* a metric version of a grade 8 bolt. It is a *normal* bolt, nothing special about it. A 10.9 bolt is the grade 8 equivalent. A 12.9 bolt, if you can find one, is another step up. If you can, look for 10.9 or 12.9 bolts if you want to feel secure about things. An 8.8 normal bolt is probably good enough, but don't think it's a grade 8 equivalent because it flat-out is not.
Camber specs from the factory are -.8 to -1.8 degrees. This means that the tire is tilted in, at the top, towards the car that many degrees (+ positive camber would have the tops pointing away from the car). I've read discussion here and there's no real agreement on what a good camber should be (for track racing or autocrossing or anything else). So the stock range is pretty well liked by everyone. If you go too far to the - side, you get really bad tire wear. If you straight up (0 degrees) or even positive, then the car will drive and feel really funny.
Tein springs, measured about a year after installation, give me -3.45 degrees camber if I don't do anything to fix it. That's what you'd call "a shit ton of camber". It'll wear out a set of Potenza S-03's in about 10,000 miles of driving by making the insides of the tires go bald. Pretty stupid way to need to replace $200 tires, on account of being too lazy to fix the camber problem (this is me). Given that, I'd recommend to everyone with any aftermarket spring to fix their camber, regardless of the drop. Take the cost of 2 tires, and figure that you're pissing away that much money if you don't bother fixing your rear camber (The front is kind of the same, but that's another story).
The stock bolts that hold the upper control arm bracket to the car are about 25mm long. The holes they thread into are also about 25mm long. The stock bolts don't quite bottom out, because of the thickness of the bracket itself. The upper control arm bracket is about 4mm thick, and the bolts thens crew about 21mm worth into the holes in the car. So - if you do the DIY washer thing, you can't re-use the stock bolts because they simply won't go far enough in. Lack of threads = weakness. If you get 5mm of washers stacked, add 5mm to the original 25mm stock bolts, and buy 30mm bolts for the DIY kit. If you use 10mm of washers, get 35mm bolts for DIY. 15mm washers use 40mm bolts for DIY, and so on.
The washers I used (originally) are 1/16" thick, which is about 1.6mm. I installed 5 washers, for a total thickness of about 5/16" which is almost 8mm. I also put a lockwasher under my new bolt. I used a 30mm 8.8 bolt. Very similar to what a lot of people do. But, this setup (for me) was NOT VERY GOOD.
Problem #1: Not enough of the bolt was threaded in (about 15mm worth - it was sufficient, but going closer to the full 25mm would have been much safer).
Problem #2: I didn't realize at the time that it was not a strong bolt. Again it was strong enough to drive on for a year and not break, but it wasn't a grade 8 like I originally thought. I'm not suggesting that 8.8 will break and make you crash, but 10.9 or 12.9 would have been a better choice.
Problem #3: Not enough washers in there to fix the camber. I started at about -3.45 degrees and only got it to about -2 degrees. Did this about 5000 miles later, and the tires still wore down on the insides (not as fast as before the kit, but they still did it). Instead of 5 washers, I really needed more like 8 or 9 of them. That's a lot of washers! More than I ever thought, until I kept rechecking my measurements.
Problem #4: A small issue, but all those washers stacked up are a pain to install. They want to fall off the bolt while you put things back together. Drove me nuts and took a few tries to quit dropping them all.
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I'm actually in the middle of this (again) right now. This time around though, I've got 40mm M10 grade 12.9 bolts from McMaster-Carr, and should be making my new spacers tomorrow at work after the end of the day. The spacers for me (a Tein setup shooting for the center of that factory camber range of -1.3 deg.), means I need .582" thick spacers. I'm making my own so they can be stainless and also exactly what I want for ID, OD, and length. Also, 1 piece each will be easier to install. This is the equivalent of 9 - 10 washers!
So - if you even read all that, learn from my mistakes. If you skipped it or didn't even understand it, get the RRE kit. Personally I feel like I understand suspension, and now on my second time around with this, I'm just ditching the DIY kit I read about here and having to redo it. Making my own DIY again, but I have to admit it's now a real clone of the RRE kit. Honestly I wish I'd gotten that to begin with, I hate having to do things twice.
If you decide to go DIY, make sure to get the good bolts (not 8.8) and also expect to use 8, 9, or 10 washers per side. 5 doesn't cut it. And if you've seen the Tein's installed, you know the back doesn't even sit that low. The Eibachs are worse.
----------------------------------------------------------
If you don't know much about camber, and don't want to know much, get the RRE kit and go for it. It's extra cost, but it will save you a lot of guesswork and wondering if you've done things correctly. If you like to tinker, do it yourself.
METRIC BOLT GRADES: People need to understand that an "8.8" bolt is *not* a metric version of a grade 8 bolt. It is a *normal* bolt, nothing special about it. A 10.9 bolt is the grade 8 equivalent. A 12.9 bolt, if you can find one, is another step up. If you can, look for 10.9 or 12.9 bolts if you want to feel secure about things. An 8.8 normal bolt is probably good enough, but don't think it's a grade 8 equivalent because it flat-out is not.
Camber specs from the factory are -.8 to -1.8 degrees. This means that the tire is tilted in, at the top, towards the car that many degrees (+ positive camber would have the tops pointing away from the car). I've read discussion here and there's no real agreement on what a good camber should be (for track racing or autocrossing or anything else). So the stock range is pretty well liked by everyone. If you go too far to the - side, you get really bad tire wear. If you straight up (0 degrees) or even positive, then the car will drive and feel really funny.
Tein springs, measured about a year after installation, give me -3.45 degrees camber if I don't do anything to fix it. That's what you'd call "a shit ton of camber". It'll wear out a set of Potenza S-03's in about 10,000 miles of driving by making the insides of the tires go bald. Pretty stupid way to need to replace $200 tires, on account of being too lazy to fix the camber problem (this is me). Given that, I'd recommend to everyone with any aftermarket spring to fix their camber, regardless of the drop. Take the cost of 2 tires, and figure that you're pissing away that much money if you don't bother fixing your rear camber (The front is kind of the same, but that's another story).
The stock bolts that hold the upper control arm bracket to the car are about 25mm long. The holes they thread into are also about 25mm long. The stock bolts don't quite bottom out, because of the thickness of the bracket itself. The upper control arm bracket is about 4mm thick, and the bolts thens crew about 21mm worth into the holes in the car. So - if you do the DIY washer thing, you can't re-use the stock bolts because they simply won't go far enough in. Lack of threads = weakness. If you get 5mm of washers stacked, add 5mm to the original 25mm stock bolts, and buy 30mm bolts for the DIY kit. If you use 10mm of washers, get 35mm bolts for DIY. 15mm washers use 40mm bolts for DIY, and so on.
The washers I used (originally) are 1/16" thick, which is about 1.6mm. I installed 5 washers, for a total thickness of about 5/16" which is almost 8mm. I also put a lockwasher under my new bolt. I used a 30mm 8.8 bolt. Very similar to what a lot of people do. But, this setup (for me) was NOT VERY GOOD.
Problem #1: Not enough of the bolt was threaded in (about 15mm worth - it was sufficient, but going closer to the full 25mm would have been much safer).
Problem #2: I didn't realize at the time that it was not a strong bolt. Again it was strong enough to drive on for a year and not break, but it wasn't a grade 8 like I originally thought. I'm not suggesting that 8.8 will break and make you crash, but 10.9 or 12.9 would have been a better choice.
Problem #3: Not enough washers in there to fix the camber. I started at about -3.45 degrees and only got it to about -2 degrees. Did this about 5000 miles later, and the tires still wore down on the insides (not as fast as before the kit, but they still did it). Instead of 5 washers, I really needed more like 8 or 9 of them. That's a lot of washers! More than I ever thought, until I kept rechecking my measurements.
Problem #4: A small issue, but all those washers stacked up are a pain to install. They want to fall off the bolt while you put things back together. Drove me nuts and took a few tries to quit dropping them all.
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm actually in the middle of this (again) right now. This time around though, I've got 40mm M10 grade 12.9 bolts from McMaster-Carr, and should be making my new spacers tomorrow at work after the end of the day. The spacers for me (a Tein setup shooting for the center of that factory camber range of -1.3 deg.), means I need .582" thick spacers. I'm making my own so they can be stainless and also exactly what I want for ID, OD, and length. Also, 1 piece each will be easier to install. This is the equivalent of 9 - 10 washers!
So - if you even read all that, learn from my mistakes. If you skipped it or didn't even understand it, get the RRE kit. Personally I feel like I understand suspension, and now on my second time around with this, I'm just ditching the DIY kit I read about here and having to redo it. Making my own DIY again, but I have to admit it's now a real clone of the RRE kit. Honestly I wish I'd gotten that to begin with, I hate having to do things twice.
If you decide to go DIY, make sure to get the good bolts (not 8.8) and also expect to use 8, 9, or 10 washers per side. 5 doesn't cut it. And if you've seen the Tein's installed, you know the back doesn't even sit that low. The Eibachs are worse.
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