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General intake questions, answered.

27K views 99 replies 63 participants last post by  AMTrombley  
#1 ·
This seems to be a common question about the air intakes available for the 3G. I will try and address what they are, what they do, etc.

How does an intake work?

Easy. It allows more air to enter the engine. This is the single most important aspect of improving horsepower and torque. The easier it is for an engine to bring oxygen into the combustion, the better it runs. Your stock intake consists of a series of twists and turns and resonating chambers to muffle sound, combined with a highly restrictive cheap air filter. It's like trying to breathe through a small coffee straw - hard right? You'd probably pass out. Now imagine breathing through a big Slurpy straw - much easier. Your engine reacts the same way.

So the objective of an intake system to create the least restrictive path of air into the engine. Simply said - a tube with a high-flow filter stuck on the end.

Which intake is better?

That's entirely your opinion. Any of the intakes listed here will give similar performance (around 9hp), but it's build-quality that seperates the men from the boys.

Of all the intakes listed here, I'd suggest either the AEM or Injen Race Division intake. Each have a similar build and quality, with both securely bolting to the frame of the car and with a flexible elbow to ensure a proper and safe fit. Both allow the lower piece to be removed (converting to a short-ram) as well. The Injen does offer a splash shield whereas the AEM does not.

Do I need to worry about water with a Cold-Air Intake?

Doubtful. It's very rare for this to happen unless you have a tendency to go wading through flooded streets at full throttle.

Think about it, it takes 1 cup of water to cause "hydrolock" (actually, that's an incorrect term, but I won't get into that) and seize the engine - the reason being that water cannot be compressed like air can, and SOMETHING'S got to give. Anyway, in order for you to suck that much water in, you would have to submerge the entire filter underwater and suck air UP the intake tube and into the engine. Last I checked, water has a hard time flowing UP.

If you're really concerned about sucking in water, AEM offers the Bypass Valve (works with AEM intakes only) which will feel the drop in pressure and automatically suck air from a higher source (above the water). Again, this is an extremely rare scenario.

There are two types of intakes available for the Eclipse, either a CAI, ( a Cold Air Intake) or a WAI, (a Warm Air Intake)

A CAI, simply put, is an intake that has a longer tube that extends the filter element down and below the engine. This type of intake draws in cooler air, as it is farther from the engine.

Images courtesy of Road Race Engineering
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A WAI, again, simply put, is a intake that has a much shorter tube with the filter element resting in the engine bay-drawing in the warmer underhood temperatures.

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Or you can go the "no frills" route and just use an adapter that fits onto the Mass Air Flow Meter; finishing it with a filter element of your choice.

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Generally speaking, a CAI will offer greater performance at speed than a WAI, as the CAI sheds heat faster due to the filter element ingesting air from a cooler location. However, a WAI is also a great performer, much better than the stock filter system, and worry free in regards to the possibility of hydrolock.

Performance gains for these type systems aren't really measurable. Realistically, you won't get an increase in power from simple bolt ons without a heavy tune.

Your gas milage, generally speaking, should increase. But, people are more often than not, are enthralled with the sound that the intakes, (both WAI & CAI) produce when rev'd, (a distinctive howl above 4K RPM's) So the small benefit of increased gas milage that you get, goes out the window. :)
 
#2 ·
Well here is why I don't like running CAI:

Denver Flooding

My neighborhood was blocked off by a river of water that use to be a small ditch.

Though really, I'd like to hear if anyone really notices a difference. At > 5000ft altitude, I've noticed no real difference between the two configurations. That is why I leave it as a WAI. :D
 
#9 ·
Hi Sam. :) I appreciate your thread and have a few questions in follow up.

Sam said:
That's entirely your opinion. Any of the intakes listed here will give similar performance (around 9hp), but it's build-quality that seperates the men from the boys.

does that number refer to the 3.0 or the 2.4?


Sam said:
Generally speaking, a CAI will offer greater performance at speed than a WAI, as the CAI sheds heat faster due to the filter element ingesting air from a cooler location. However, a WAI is also a great performer, much better than the stock filter system, and worry free in regards to the possibility of hydrolock.
I know a few basic things about the air flow path and this part of your post seems to contradict that.


A cool air intake offers more off the line power whereas the warm air intake offers more top end power.

for every 10-11 farenheit degrees intake air temp is lowered there is a corresponding 1% gain in power due to the enhanced combustion offered by more oxygen.

So an idling car sucking cooler air from it's fender will have more power off the line, right? And a car with a short intake tube sucking warmer (oxygen depleted) air will have less power off the line, but may gradually build a better power curve as the car accelerates due to ambient air cooling the engine bay. Also I believe the shorter, straighter intake offers greater air volume and velocity.

I am by no means a tuning wizard, but what I have seen on chassis dyno runs with my RSX (both before and after supercharging it) is the power curve shifting downward with a long tube and shifting upward with a short one.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your post. :):)
 
#11 ·
RottenWillow said:
Hi Sam. :) I appreciate your thread and have a few questions in follow up.
Sure thing, thanks.
RottenWillow said:
does that number refer to the 3.0 or the 2.4?
That is for the 3.0l.
Rottenwillow said:
I know a few basic things about the air flow path and this part of your post seems to contradict that.


A cool air intake offers more off the line power whereas the warm air intake offers more top end power.
Myself and another mod have made multiple datalogged runs, and the effects dissipate when movement occurs. Thanks for the insight though.
RottenWillow said:
for every 10-11 farenheit degrees intake air temp is lowered there is a corresponding 1% gain in power due to the enhanced combustion offered by more oxygen.

So an idling car sucking cooler air from it's fender will have more power off the line, right? And a car with a short intake tube sucking warmer (oxygen depleted) air will have less power off the line, but may gradually build a better power curve as the car accelerates due to ambient air cooling the engine bay. Also I believe the shorter, straighter intake offers greater air volume and velocity.
I go by numbers, no theory involved, I am going what the MAS sees, and how the 3G EGT responds. The other mod I am referring to has also had every variant of intake imaginable, with different types of ducting, materials, etc.
RottenWillow said:
I am by no means a tuning wizard, but what I have seen on chassis dyno runs with my RSX (both before and after supercharging it) is the power curve shifting downward with a long tube and shifting upward with a short one.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your post. :):)
Thank you again for the regards. My question about the Honda engine, where is the MAS/MAF assembly on the intake path of that car?
 
#12 ·
Sam said:
Myself and another mod have made multiple datalogged runs, and the effects dissipate when movement occurs. Thanks for the insight though.
which effects Sam? the differential effects between the two types?

Sam said:
Thank you again for the regards. My question about the Honda engine, where is the MAS/MAF assembly on the intake path of that car?
I intended to upload a pic for you to illustrate, but can't locate that function. :(

Anyway, it's at the driver's side fender well. Is that what you were asking?
 
#13 ·
RottenWillow said:
which effects Sam? the differential effects between the two types?
Its linearity of numbers at speed, no amount of turbulence fluctuated the readings of the WAI, the CAI or the hybrids.
RottenWillow said:
I intended to upload a pic for you to illustrate, but can't locate that function. :(
You can upload in the reply box. Give it another look.
Rottenwillow said:
Anyway, it's at the driver's side fender well. Is that what you were asking?
No, tha actual placement of the meter along the intake path. Is it closer to the TB, or further away like the majority of cars?
 
#14 ·
Sam said:
No, tha actual placement of the meter along the intake path. Is it closer to the TB, or further away like the majority of cars?
OH the sensor. duh, sorry. Not certain off hand how far the sensor is from the TB. I drive my econobox to work so I cant run out and check.

sounds like you're working on a hypothesis regarding engine management and air temp placement?
 
#17 ·
CAI vs. Water

I am interested to know more about the cause and effect of water with the CAI.
I had a WAI on my Civic and didn't ever worry about that.
I live in Seattle, (do I have to go on?) and I haven't ever seen it flood here but we do get enormous amounts of rain at times. Would this ever be an issue with a CAI? My 01 Eclipse is also lowered if that makes a difference.
 
#18 ·
Tierany said:
I am interested to know more about the cause and effect of water with the CAI.
I had a WAI on my Civic and didn't ever worry about that.
I live in Seattle, (do I have to go on?) and I haven't ever seen it flood here but we do get enormous amounts of rain at times. Would this ever be an issue with a CAI? My 01 Eclipse is also lowered if that makes a difference.

Unless you drive into lakes, no, it won't matter.
 
#22 ·
hey guys... i know aftermarket intake systems make sound different like whistling sounds or whatever. which intake system or filter sounds loud? im using injen CAI and im not satisfied with the sound although it whistles but its not that loud as i expected. or maybe it will change if i put cat back exhaust system? what do you guys think? any idea? thanks!!!
 
#25 ·
I personally use an Injen cai and rarely covert it to wai unless its winter time. My recommendation is that if you do use a full cai system just use lite throttle pressure if your drivng in rainy conditions at a low speed.

At a higher rate of speed remember any rain that splashes up at the intake... you are driving past due to momentum. So it doesnt really allow the water to splash in the actual intake. Also water doesnt fow up all that well. But to be safe if you are that worried about it change it to wai. It takes approx 2 minutes of your time with a wrench and flat head screw driver.

and remember to keep you filter clean. Best way to tell if its dirty is to hold it up to a good light source. If minimal light shines through then it is time to clean it or replace the filter
 
#26 ·
I'm saving up for an Injen WAI that will accept the CAI attachment, but the problem is that the ones they make for the 2.4L auto are expensive as hell. I think I'll go with a hi-flow filter first.

Also, I asked this elsewhere but couldn't get a satisfactory answer: is there a real limit to how much air can be sucked in by the engine, or a point where the volume outweighs any benefits gained by increased airflow? I have an idea, but I'm trying ot see if it is viable before I put any money into getting it to work.