I haeard that aroudn 15-20 % of all power is lost with auto. 5 spd is different tho

 

5hp?!?!?!? You loose a lot more than that. Part of it is due to fluid, but most of it is just do to all the extra bull shit that is in an automatic. A lot more gears, and that torque converter doesnt help. Whenever you have more gears that usually equals more loss over each piece that you put power thru.

I haeard that aroudn 15-20 % of all power is lost with auto. 5 spd is different tho

I think I figured out with my recent dyno numbers that a sporty 3G looses 16-18% from the crank to the wheels. Not bad for an automatic. I believe 5spds loose 10-12%.

 

Stock for Stock, an auto runs about 1sec slower in the quarter. That's a fairly big threshold. You'll need some decent bolt ons and a tune just to be on equal ground.

 

No, butt fawking way its 1 second slower.

 

damn that a huge difference... kinda sucks

 

Thats why I dont drive Auto !!!

 

The sportronic transmission weighs around 100 pounds more than the manual transmission. It has fewer gears which means more holes in your power band, and the parasitic loss for an automatic is about 18% compared with the 10-15% you get with a manual transmission. All these variables equate to a slower car, about 1 second slower to 60 and about a second slower in the quarter mile. You have to remember though that an automatic is easier to launch and gives you easliy repeatable performance. Getting a perfect launch and making every shift perfectly is difficult to do when driving a stick and its even harder to repeat on every run. Having control over your gears allows you to be proactive with your gear shifts, just like the driver of a manual transmission car. THere are advantages and disadvantages to driving each so it's really a matter of choice .

 

yeah autos are slower stock but i would have to say if your gonna be building a car with alot of power a automatic would be better simply because a torque converter. ive always been told that the automatics are alot better for high end drag racing and 5 speeds were more for street and having fun with. torque converters put more torque off the line than a 5 speed but in the long run the 5 speed is gonna have closer gear ratios.

 

There's a second difference. It doesn't seem like it at first but the auto's shitty 2nd gear doesn't help how long it is and the intake of air dies too quick. I figured the auto's lost some where like 20-25% drive train loss since most dyno's put out about 150-160 whp. Though I still think the ECU has something to do with it as well. When I got my car after the wreck it pulled hard for first days I thought my engine was fixed then when the ecu finally tuned itself all that pull was gone.

 

i've heard 30-40hp down the drain for the sporty.

 

well the auto is also a little heavier

 

BTW... Ron, so when are you coming for me to do a 5spd swap for you?

Gonna put your money where your mouth is for once?

 

this has been spoken about before... StockvsStock 5speed better, but when FI then auto is better w/ highstall converter, why? because auto gets better traction and a long second gear.

 

the post wasn't meant to start another argument about what transmission is better. Transmission choice is a very subjective thing, each has advantages over the other in certain circumstances. The person who started the post wanted to know how much HP he would have to make up to be able to keep up with a 5 speed version of his car. There's really no way to answer this question. The driveline loss may be a certain percentage of HP, but the other disadvantages of an automatic (weight and gearing) make things a bit more complicated. The advantages ( repeatability, easier launch, better access to torque off the line) make the question of "keeping up" or "running with" even more complicated. I'd consider magazine figures to be the most objective figures available, due to the detailed testing process that the big magazines use to get their performance figures. These tests put the automatic version somewhere in the range of 1-1.5 seconds slower to both 60 and in the quarter mile. The answer to the question "how much HP do I need to run with a 5 speed"seems to be "whatever amount of HP and driving technique that allows you to make up that second or two difference in performance"

 

so what if a 5speed RS runs a sporty gt ...who would win???

 

Ask something stupid like this again, and the ban stick is going to win.

 

the RS, it neva looses.

 

:rofl:

 

I am captain hypothetical.

 

What happened??? Thats not what I posted. It was a stupid question so I wont post it again, that plus it was answered right after my original. Still, what happened??

 

:uh: stop asking stupid hypothetical questions. a GT will beat a GS/RS unless the latter two are F/I. period

 

That's actually not true. I have seen one particular NA RS whoop up on multiple Sporty GT's.

But, all things being equal (driver, mods, time and location), a GT should always win.

 

I have been looking around... I have an 02 GT sporty. I have found a few MT transmissions locally for around $600. I can’t decide whether to invest in a high stall torque converter for my sporty on do a MT transmission swap. Money wise the parts are fairly similar in price. TConverter $450.00 + $80 shift kit. I’m currently I/E NA...and I am wondering if I go with the torque converter and work on the shift kit, can I yield a similar results with my sporty, that i would get from a MT swap would produce?

 

This is a good question. I'm also interested in hearing what you guys have to say.

 

I want to know about the 80$ shift kit he mentioned.

 

Thread:
http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclipse-general-discussion/88625-faster-sporty-shifts.html

IPT Performance Transmissions Torque Converters and Transmission Parts for Ford, GM, Chrysler, and Import vehicles just click on the mitsubishi link on the right

The AT transmission in the 4cyl and 6cyl Eclipse only have 4 gears.

There are 3 aspects in upgrading the transmission.

1. Torque converter. In a nutshell you can change your stall rate so the converter engages later so it frees up the engine from bogging down at a lower power level. More info: Tearstone Performance - 6G7* Pro Series Torque Convertor

2. "Shift kit", As mentioned in my first post and what bitter said you improve the ability for the fluid to flow easier through the hydrobody so that your shift times improve from 6/10th of a second down to 2/10ths of a second.

3. Bullet proofing, it's only necessary if you plan on throwing a lot of power at the tranny. I've yet to hear of a properly maintained tranny failing due to excessive power.

As a supplement, I highly recommend an auxillary transmission cooler that you can pick up at any discount auto store or Ebay if you are going to modify your car or beat on it excessively. Keeping temps down and maintaining your fluid properly extends the life of your tranny leaps and bounds.

 

refer to post #31...as Zrocks continually takes every thread offtopic

 

:scratch: he asked a question, i answered it. how is that off the topic?

 

the 5 speed RS is the fastest of the 4 cyl third generation eclipses, unlike the previous generations the RS has the same power output but a lot less weight than a GS. The car may in fact acclerate more quickly than a six cylinder with an automatic given the right driver. The automatic GT will be able to pull off the same accleration numbers over and over again while the 5 speed Rs times will probably vary quite a bit.

 

you see my question was not that stupid...i asked cuz i have seen 5speed rs beating gt sporty twice(maybe luck idk.) if a 5speed RS has a good cat back lets said a greeddy evo I or II , AEM Cai and some header?? that the basic gain for HP's runs agains a gt sporty stock...i am pretty sure that the rs would beat the gt anytime with the right driver no matter what...thats my opinion

 

So with the High Stall TQ Converter and shift kit which will run a total of almost 800(including installation) im guessing, would be cheaper and more benefical, considering im going FI with this car.

Lol greg depends on how much u charge for the install process, i can find a tranny but i have to figure out which method would be better 5spd swap or sporty + upgrades.

So far all the info i was able to recover from everyone is very very helpful. It explains why my car runs the way it does and my retarded long 2nd gear which makes no power. Since sports are only making 150-160whp and my I/E can only put me to 165-170. Stock 5spd make 170whp so with I/H/E would put 180-190. I would need an additional 20whp to run with 5spds.

 

THE FRIKING THING IS SOLVE!!!!! i dont care if you believe me or not but today i finally got the privilege to race a 2002 gt sporty stock and so was i..2002 rs 5 speed stock...i almost cried when i beat him im not going to say for a lot but i did beat him for about 1/2 to 1 car more than twice!! it is prove that manual isbetter than sporty but now we got more prove that a 4cl 5speed is better than a GT automatic

 

Either I'm really unlucky or this is the biggest weak link in the auto transmission, aside from the laughable second gear and fact that its an auto. Thats all I can really direct people to when they talk about building that auto as I've blown two of those pumps out in 70k miles.

The other thing you guys have to realize, is look at all other import brands, Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Mazda. NO one uses auto's in most of those cars, as import automatics have a habit of sucking. We dont have a powerglide. This transmission would pretty much only be worth the effort if someone made a super tough pump, and a reworked valvebody and clutch packs.

I swapped my galant to a S5N 5spd out of a GTS, and I will never look back. I'm keeping up with or beating cars that run consistant mid 14's at the track. And I'm within 1 second of beating my buddies '06 STI around an autocross course. A manual will always be more versital in the sense that you can make it manigable on the street, but hold up with ease on the track. An import manual will always be stronger, and be able to rev higher and sustain rpms for extended periods of time. Going to a 5spd with my galant was the best decision I've ever made for the car.